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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 16:37:51 -
[1] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Also: There are a percentage of the player base that don't really play any more, but they keep the account subbed so they can keep skilling. This proposal would let them drop the subscription, because they could just buy the SP later. At this juncture though, "later" might never happen. Most subscriptions would most likely never re-sub. This "later" makes no sense. Why somebody need to wait for SP injenction? I think there're much more people droped the game because they lost interest while waiting. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:03:04 -
[2] - Quote
Laodell wrote:When I joined Eve everyone had the same start on life. We were all equal to build our empire. Trading SP destroys that
When I joined Eve(24 days ago) most of players has much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:23:53 -
[3] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:General Lootit wrote:Laodell wrote:When I joined Eve everyone had the same start on life. We were all equal to build our empire. Trading SP destroys that
When I joined Eve(about 25 days ago) most of players has much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do. But do you prefer that the players who started the same day as you have the same path as you or do you want a system where you can jump 20 paces ahead and still be overtaken by someone with deeper pockets. I don't mind because his new shiny ship will annihilate-¦ by more skillfull player in true meaning of this word. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:51:29 -
[4] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:General Lootit wrote:Laodell wrote:When I joined Eve everyone had the same start on life. We were all equal to build our empire. Trading SP destroys that
When I joined Eve(about 25 days ago) most of players has much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do. Your point being...? A frigate for example, can only utilise a set number of skill points, once you have them you are on a par (skill wise) with someone who started on day one of Eve-Online. My point is that if new player defeat old one then "skillfull" capsuleer will reshipto t3d. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:27:05 -
[5] - Quote
So why Pay2Win mechanic like PLEX is no concern to Play2Winers? Maybe because exchange happens in which all sides in winning position. Payers gets isks and not worried about earning PLEX , tryharders gets free sub, CCP gets money. In skill transfering case something goes wrong and some side does gaining nothing or even loosing. There is no secret that veterans loosing their prestige so we need to reward them more than cost exchange of unwanted skills. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 07:33:12 -
[6] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Ok, I've got over my initial knee-jerk reaction. My thank you to the few thoughtful, calm and rational posters. Now I find this interesting, exciting and scary at the same time. This would be a HUGE change, and I don't think all the ramifications have been noted yet (though I certainly haven't read all 2.300 posts!). For example, let's look at the SP supply side. Say you're more or less satisfied with the skills you have. Either because you have 100M+ SP, or because you have 15M but well focused on what you like doing in EVE. Note that this may change over time. You can be ok for a few months, then maybe you want SP to do other stuff, then maybe go back to not really needing additional SP anymore. Note that this happens all the time for utility alt accounts: once you have a good hauler, for example, you may well not be really interested in skilling them up in something else. Now, guess what? To play the game (or even just to shitpost on EVE-O lol) you have to be subscribed. So you're accumulating SP even though you may not need them at the moment. With this change, you could first change your skillplan to whatever, just to maximise SP/hour based on your current remap. Then, extract and sell these 'surplus' SP. Fascinating, uh? But it gets better! I understand it's safe to assume that your monthly 1.8M (or so) SP will be roughly worth the equivalent of 1 PLEX. See what's happening here? If you forfeit your SP accumulation, you could PLEX your account without grinding ISK!Partial SP extraction would of course be possible too, meaning that you could fund your monthly PLEX partly with ISK, partly with SP donations. Did I get this right? Note that you don't need to be a multi-year vet for this to make sense. What do you guys think of this? I think it is a good option when you found your specialization and training not required yet. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 07:49:34 -
[7] - Quote
Laodell wrote:Something else I haven't seen mentioned.
Sec status would be meaningless. It's bad enough that Empire is already more dangerous than 0.0.
Instead of putting a gank alt out long enough to grind positive status back or train a new alt. These alts could be created almost daily. Start a new alt every day and pay to skill them up. Hit targets in 1.0 space with no indication something foul was afoot.
Honesty within the community has been brought up in many different forms in this EpicThread so far, I don't need to rehash those issues.
All this 'feature' would accomplish is help the dishonest in the game scam ever more. Increase the ability of spies to infiltrate target corporations with impunity and destroy any semblance of trust this game requires.
This idea sounds like it came straight from the goons.
The real question for CCP here based on the evidence presented so far as I and many others before me interpret it is:
What kind of players do you want in the game?
-- People that recognize consequence and work to build a good reputation? -- People that want game mechanics to help them lie, steal and destroy?
Choose wisely CCP. We will be voting with our wallets. Actually both opption is necessary. I can't remember last time when I watched film without any problems in it which was solving by characters successfully or not.
"Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world, where none suffered, where everyone would be happy? It was a disaster. No one would accept the program, entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world, but I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through misery and suffering. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from." |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 09:04:53 -
[8] - Quote
BroodAlpha wrote:Hello guys,
I'm going to go ahead and say I really dislike the premise of this change and with the diminishing returns it feels like CCP is doing this to make the lives of newbeans easier (which is cool), but this ostracizes the entire older player community. As a director of a newbean corp I would normally be in favor of a change like this but I am not.
I have been playing for a year and a half and I would not have the toons that I have right now, and the capital I earned from the Bazaar would be negligible if these proposed changes were live when I started.
1) SP on the Bazaar holds value because characters are uniquely trained. With these skillpoint sucker doo-hiccies no character is unique any more because people can just remap whatever.
2) The value of high SP characters drops through the floor due to the diminishing returns on the extractors.
3) It puts a monetary value on SP in certain ranges, meaning that players no longer decide the value of toons which was half the fun of the bazaar.
4) It removes the most stable market in the game, SP. SP was stable because you couldn't mess with it. With these proposed changes, you can.
To put this into terms for you guys I have made a lot of ISK from character sales on the Bazaar using this strategy:
1) Look for a relatively well trained toon that needs a bit of fixing up, but not too much.
2) Acquire toon for a good SP/ISK ratio (3m SP per Billion ISK)
3) Train holes in toon
4) Flip for profit
Is this possible with the new system? Not really, because rich toffs can just manipulate characters so they're perfect, meaning that unless you pump money into making sure that no SP is wasted, the value of toons drops through the floor.
One of my recent transactions netted me 15b ISK profit for doing 2 months training. This is because I put a bunch of time into learning the market, toon values and learning what skills EVE players put value in. There's also no scamming on the Bazaar so it's the safest place to invest your ISK.
I don't think anyone expected CCP to suggest messing with skill points... After this change, I will no longer be using the Bazaar.
BroodAlpha is trained almost perfectly outside of the Mining V and Gas Cloud Mining V. Do I want to be able to reallocate those SP? Sure it'd be cool, but it's NOT worth changing the entire system for and it devalues all my other toons. I task anyone to go to the Bazaar right now and find me a better trained 64m SP allround subcap toon.
tl;dr
Worst idea I've heard of since Jump Fatigue being applied to jump bridges (Remember the change was supposed to nerf capital projection, not the ability of sovholding alliances to move their subcap fleets around). So you against this idea because it will change mechanic which makes you profit. Nothing strange here. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
2
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Posted - 2015.10.17 09:21:32 -
[9] - Quote
Kitagawa Mika wrote:Really cool idea, would love to see this implemented sooner rather than later. This is a good way to help new players and to make eve a viable option for new players. As it stands now, someone coming in to EVE as a new player the skill system and required time must be really daunting. I understand that older players don't like change, but I see only upside... So I welcome this idea with open arms to insure the progress and success of EVE going forward. The only reason why I'm not playing at the moment is waiting while my skill traning for new activity but if I had chance to inject SP by isk investments I rather go playing and earning some isk to afford Skill Packet instead sitting on forum and doing nothing. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
3
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Posted - 2015.10.17 09:57:55 -
[10] - Quote
BroodAlpha wrote:General Lootit wrote:BroodAlpha wrote:Hello guys,
I'm going to go ahead and say I really dislike the premise of this change and with the diminishing returns it feels like CCP is doing this to make the lives of newbeans easier (which is cool), but this ostracizes the entire older player community. As a director of a newbean corp I would normally be in favor of a change like this but I am not.
I have been playing for a year and a half and I would not have the toons that I have right now, and the capital I earned from the Bazaar would be negligible if these proposed changes were live when I started.
1) SP on the Bazaar holds value because characters are uniquely trained. With these skillpoint sucker doo-hiccies no character is unique any more because people can just remap whatever.
2) The value of high SP characters drops through the floor due to the diminishing returns on the extractors.
3) It puts a monetary value on SP in certain ranges, meaning that players no longer decide the value of toons which was half the fun of the bazaar.
4) It removes the most stable market in the game, SP. SP was stable because you couldn't mess with it. With these proposed changes, you can.
To put this into terms for you guys I have made a lot of ISK from character sales on the Bazaar using this strategy:
1) Look for a relatively well trained toon that needs a bit of fixing up, but not too much.
2) Acquire toon for a good SP/ISK ratio (3m SP per Billion ISK)
3) Train holes in toon
4) Flip for profit
Is this possible with the new system? Not really, because rich toffs can just manipulate characters so they're perfect, meaning that unless you pump money into making sure that no SP is wasted, the value of toons drops through the floor.
One of my recent transactions netted me 15b ISK profit for doing 2 months training. This is because I put a bunch of time into learning the market, toon values and learning what skills EVE players put value in. There's also no scamming on the Bazaar so it's the safest place to invest your ISK.
I don't think anyone expected CCP to suggest messing with skill points... After this change, I will no longer be using the Bazaar.
BroodAlpha is trained almost perfectly outside of the Mining V and Gas Cloud Mining V. Do I want to be able to reallocate those SP? Sure it'd be cool, but it's NOT worth changing the entire system for and it devalues all my other toons. I task anyone to go to the Bazaar right now and find me a better trained 64m SP allround subcap toon.
tl;dr
Worst idea I've heard of since Jump Fatigue being applied to jump bridges (Remember the change was supposed to nerf capital projection, not the ability of sovholding alliances to move their subcap fleets around). So you against this idea because it will change mechanic which makes you profit. Nothing strange here. A swing and a miss. I'm against the change because it removes key functionality in the game that EVERYONE is taking advantage of and makes the game interesting. I'm also against it because remapping high SP characters (which a LOT of players have) is not effective and devalues them. I'm a new player, I'm sure there are even more reasons why older players would dislike this change. I assume that the key reason to like or dislike something is personall one in most cases. In your case it is unnesasry adaptation to the new system because old one already makes you isks and this change could hurt to your business model.
Waiting while your skill tranning is not interesting thing at all. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 10:27:11 -
[11] - Quote
159Pinky wrote:Kitagawa Mika wrote:Really cool idea, would love to see this implemented sooner rather than later. This is a good way to help new players and to make eve a viable option for new players. As it stands now, someone coming in to EVE as a new player the skill system and required time must be really daunting. I understand that older players don't like change, but I see only upside... So I welcome this idea with open arms to insure the progress and success of EVE going forward. So, where will new players get the isk to buy this? Not by playing cause it'll be expensive. So they'll have to buy plex with real money. If you feel like this "pay to play" is good, then yeah: this is good for new players. I can afford that. In FW earning rate is about 75kk per hour on trial account. So if Packet will be cost around 1/4 of PLEX (assuming that farming rate is 2000k SP per month so 500k SP is 1/4 of month) I need 4 hour to buy Packet which worth 1 week of traning. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 10:44:20 -
[12] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:General Lootit wrote:159Pinky wrote:Kitagawa Mika wrote:Really cool idea, would love to see this implemented sooner rather than later. This is a good way to help new players and to make eve a viable option for new players. As it stands now, someone coming in to EVE as a new player the skill system and required time must be really daunting. I understand that older players don't like change, but I see only upside... So I welcome this idea with open arms to insure the progress and success of EVE going forward. So, where will new players get the isk to buy this? Not by playing cause it'll be expensive. So they'll have to buy plex with real money. If you feel like this "pay to play" is good, then yeah: this is good for new players. I can afford that. In FW earning rate is about 75kk per hour on trial account. So if Packet will be cost around 1/4 of PLEX (assuming that farming rate is 2000k SP per month so 500k SP is 1/4 of month) I need 4 hour to buy Packet which worth 1 week of traning. I believe it will cost less. If people sell SP from their alts, they don't necessarily need to get the 'farming' SP/PLEX rate, because they'd pay the PLEX (or sub) anyway to actually play with their alts. Not saying 'SP you don't need is free' (like 'minerals you mine are free' LOL), but it's certainly worth less than a full PLEX per month. Market will show. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 11:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Until someone counters them with some reasonable explanation I will stand by the fact that this is easily the worst decision ever since it will change fundamentals of the game for unknown expectations without helping more than minor percent of the players.
this is one for when you get back then, Don. let's start at the beginning. What fundamentals are being changed? buying/selling SP? no. we're already doing that with the character bazaar. bypassing the skill training system? no. we're already doing that with the charcter bazaar. "now we can get characters with 400m sp" - so what problem does that cause? Dave I'm rather amazed at your posting on this regard. You are quite a level headed chap and clued on in many respects. But I feel you're dismissing facts and inventing your own to fit your stance, in this instance. We do not buy SP, we buy characters with all the baggage associated with them. This is why many of us are OK with the bazaar. It does not bypass the training system, as those characters had to be trained over time with the normal mechanics. The speed at which they gain that SP has a ceiling. The fundamental difference is now we will be able to buy raw SP and inject directly. How you cannot see the difference, is rather puzzling to me. Buying raw SP is bypassing the training system for characters being injected. If I train for the first year 2 characters, then move the SP from one to the other, that's almost doubling the speed of one character. Not possible right now, so a fundamental change. As far as 400m characters is concerned. I personally don't think this game will benefit in the long run, from the 'I want it now' crowd. If you don't see an issue with that, OK fine. But I do. For instance, FOTM is a thing and will not improve with this change. I'm not going to argue the point with you, I've had enough of the topic. I dislike the idea and the blog just seems off to me somehow. I'm not sure why and maybe it was my initial thoughts when I first read it, that still lingers. It is an emotional topic for sure. You ask what is wrong with it, I ask what does it fix. So far, not one person has answered that. As the onus is upon the ones wanting change, I will wait to see if anyone can justify it. I'm personally don't enjoy seeing a change like this, seemingly on a whim. Dev: Oh let's do up the bazaar. other Dev: Tell you what, let's sell SP. It's such a mad escalation and tangent from the first thought. It just doesn't sit well with many of us. Anyway that's me done. I still like ya Dave, I just don't agree with your stance.
I give you my personal reason why it must be implemented. I need a better way than bazaar to exchange my isks for SP. Now I waiting while skill traning happens to change my in-game activity. I rather play more to earn isks for Packet than wait but bazaar not an option for me. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 11:45:16 -
[14] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: On the plus side, this change coupled with the recent buff in skill points is a huge boon to the New Order and other highsec gankers. Using the trial period and the free PLEX for a buddy account, you can almost have a near max DPS 5M SP Catalyst ganking alt for free which you can then run indefinitely, also for near free, by harvesting the SP each month. Free gank alts for everyone, and as many as your machine can run at one time, should make our job of bringing highsec into compliance that much easier.
You can't learn blasters on trial account.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 12:50:54 -
[15] - Quote
Asveron Durr wrote:Black Pedro wrote:General Lootit wrote:Black Pedro wrote: On the plus side, this change coupled with the recent buff in skill points is a huge boon to the New Order and other highsec gankers. Using the trial period and the free PLEX for a buddy account, you can almost have a near max DPS 5M SP Catalyst ganking alt for free which you can then run indefinitely, also for near free, by harvesting the SP each month. Free gank alts for everyone, and as many as your machine can run at one time, should make our job of bringing highsec into compliance that much easier.
You can't learn blasters on trial account. I am pretty sure you can. But it won't be a trial account anymore as soon as you use your free buddy PLEX to activate it. Have to use this quote since your editing your last post almost by the minute General Lootit..... Your wrong about the blasters, sure maybe not about t2 but you do not need t2 for a cheap effective gank alt Yeap I talked about t2 but firstly I miss the point of PLEX investment. There are no such thing as a free PLEX. Every PLEX cost something.
For t1 SP injection doesn't help much because learning time of quee is 2 hours which should allow you to deal 200 dps. With "Small Blaster Specialization" you could get 500 dps. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 14:02:45 -
[16] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:General Lootit wrote: Yeap I talked about t2 but firstly I miss the point of PLEX investment. There are no such thing as a free PLEX. Every PLEX cost something.
For t1 SP injection doesn't help much because learning time of quee is 2 hours which should allow you to deal 200 dps. With "Small Blaster Specialization" you could get 500 dps.
No, you get a free PLEX if you subscribe a buddy account. It is 100%, absolutely free. You can also apply it 1 hour after you start your trial account giving you 60 days of absolutely free training, which will get you just a hair's breadth from 5M SP. And as soon as you apply it you can start to train T2 blasters. With the latest buff to starting SP, you are well on your way to a max DPS catayst alt for free which you can now sell the SP from to run for next to nothing. II got it
1) Invite buddy 2) Give PLEX to him 3) He activate it 4) Get PLEX from CCP for it 5) Buy injector and apply it on buddys account.
For comparison to sec.tag way if packet will cost about 300kk then for extra 50kk you will get toon with clean history, 0 secstatus , with no kill rights on it and 1kk SP.
Am I right? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.17 16:27:37 -
[17] - Quote
Eschin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Eschin wrote:There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve. just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can. it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void. this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap. How do you follow the history of the person if you can't follow his shell, because he just guts it after each major scam. I guess the honest players would be against this. All of the scammers rejoice! There is a thing called API which allow you to check history of character with his permision. Especially from whom he recived initial money or SP injectors. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 07:07:23 -
[18] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: I bought only one char from Char Bazaar at the cost of another and I regret it because the bought char clearly isn't the same as the ones I personally created & trained from the ground up with the cost of TIME.
You might had more positive experience if skill trading system already existed.
Daniela Doran wrote: Time is the one thing that you can't purchase in RL and that especially is what make EVE special.
Also it's unbreakable barrier which divided players not by experience and true skill but by time spending regardless of activity inside the game. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 07:30:48 -
[19] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Sibyyl wrote: CSM folks who oppose the change, or anyone else who's against it.
Can you point me to a cogent argument not using subjective buzzwords like "pay to win" why this change is bad?
OK, I am still catching up, but you asked nicely. There have been a few constants in Eve. Real-time for skill training and industry was one of them. Oh you can buy the item/ship and jump ahead but someone played that real time price. Same goes for the Character Bazaar. You may not have paid the time but someone did, with plex or cold hard cash. So CCP is looking at replacing it and who loses? On the surface? Nobody. We strip older characters or farmed alts and use them to fuel the newer ones. No loss, just out with the old, supercharge the new. But that is the thing. 'Stripping the old' but do you honestly think most of the skill points will go to NEW players? That it will increase retention or just make more alts of the vets? Is an increase in subs really a good thing if a lot of them are brood mares existing only to have their brains harvested on a regular basis . . . full of +5's and never ever undocking into space? Will that give us more content? Or will it just be numbers on some ledger? Will new players coming in look and see the rich instaboosting themselves into better ships and leaving the normal subscription player behind in the dust? Would you play a game like that where it was obviously a game of haves and have-nots and you were probably one of the have-nots? Or would you pour your own money in and hope it was enough to keep up? I sit in Rookie Help Chat and listen to new players trying to figure out how to play for free. How to earn that 1.2 bill within 30 days. Those types, will they stay if I tell them that not only is it unlikely but that they will have to pay extra to be decent at the game. If they listen and do pay to be able to fly . . . say an incursion or a null rat ship . . . in the first week then they will be well on the road to playing for free, right? Since increased demand for those elusive PLEX will have no effect on the market. A lot of people are saying that this is fine since it will not effect them or maybe they can use it to rearrange their own skills, clean up that shameful mining V. I just hope they are very space rich or already used to paying subscriptions. I am in the latter category. I'll still be here but IF this goes through I will be a bit more bitter and somewhat disappointed with what the game has become. Pay to win? no, but what about Pay to keep up m Mike, what personal reasone you have to dislike this idea? How it affect you personally?
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 08:33:27 -
[20] - Quote
Astroyka wrote:General Lootit wrote: Mike, what personal reasone you have to dislike this idea? How it will affects you personally?
I really hope Mike is not speaking too much from personal opinion, he's a CSM and should be speaking from a wider viewpoint, which I believe he is. I believe opinions of players represented by themselves in this thread more than enough. I asked this question because if someone have no personal reason hence he hide it to be less vulnerable to arguments and to be able speaking about more abstact things which make illusion that he giviving relevant arguments. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 09:43:44 -
[21] - Quote
Astroyka wrote:General Lootit wrote: Mike, what personal reasone you have to dislike this idea? How it will affects you personally?
I really hope Mike is not speaking too much from personal opinion, he's a CSM and should be speaking from a wider viewpoint, which I believe he is. He defenetly speaking for him selfe in that case
Mike Azariah wrote: I dislike the Character Bazaar so of course I will dislike the new TSP's as they are similar (not the same, though)
but most personal opinion(without any personal reason) I could read from him about this topic is
Mike Azariah wrote: I am also against this. I could go into details but . . . this feels wrong to me. Against what I thought the game to be.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 10:11:52 -
[22] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote: It does not matter if it pays the full sub. It will lower the cost because you sell off the SP you don't need. And yes, I talk about accounts I play with, like this account. I don't need anymore SP because a gank alt has limited SP requirements. So thanks for all the additional free (or almost free) gank accunts/alts I will create if this hits TQ
Good for you if you will be able to do this. But you need to consider that you extacting time which purchased by PLEX. So you are just transfering asserts and nothing more. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 10:22:18 -
[23] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Thus, I'm sure 500,000 SP will cost less than 1/4 PLEX + extractor. So, you won't be able to PLEX an account entirely by selling its SP accumulation.
1/4 PLEX + extractor + price of waiting traning time Patience is also valuable thing. All this market of skill traning is exist because some people have no patience like me =) I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained. So actually it may cost more than 1/4 PLEX + extractor. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
4
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 14:04:44 -
[24] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Sibyyl wrote: CSM folks who oppose the change, or anyone else who's against it.
Can you point me to a cogent argument not using subjective buzzwords like "pay to win" why this change is bad?
OK, I am still catching up, but you asked nicely. There have been a few constants in Eve. Real-time for skill training and industry was one of them. Oh you can buy the item/ship and jump ahead but someone played that real time price. Same goes for the Character Bazaar. You may not have paid the time but someone did, with plex or cold hard cash. So CCP is looking at replacing it and who loses? On the surface? Nobody. We strip older characters or farmed alts and use them to fuel the newer ones. No loss, just out with the old, supercharge the new. But that is the thing. 'Stripping the old' but do you honestly think most of the skill points will go to NEW players? That it will increase retention or just make more alts of the vets? Is an increase in subs really a good thing if a lot of them are brood mares existing only to have their brains harvested on a regular basis . . . full of +5's and never ever undocking into space? Will that give us more content? Or will it just be numbers on some ledger? Will new players coming in look and see the rich instaboosting themselves into better ships and leaving the normal subscription player behind in the dust? Would you play a game like that where it was obviously a game of haves and have-nots and you were probably one of the have-nots? Or would you pour your own money in and hope it was enough to keep up? I sit in Rookie Help Chat and listen to new players trying to figure out how to play for free. How to earn that 1.2 bill within 30 days. Those types, will they stay if I tell them that not only is it unlikely but that they will have to pay extra to be decent at the game. If they listen and do pay to be able to fly . . . say an incursion or a null rat ship . . . in the first week then they will be well on the road to playing for free, right? Since increased demand for those elusive PLEX will have no effect on the market. A lot of people are saying that this is fine since it will not effect them or maybe they can use it to rearrange their own skills, clean up that shameful mining V. I just hope they are very space rich or already used to paying subscriptions. I am in the latter category. I'll still be here but IF this goes through I will be a bit more bitter and somewhat disappointed with what the game has become. Pay to win? no, but what about Pay to keep up m +1. I hope/expect that CCP has already studied that, since it is a dangerous change to how subscription money works for the subscribers. Being given a equal chance to pay extra money and enjoy a better game experience is a mean of double-charging the customers, and that's quite a terrible thing for subscription services. RL wealthy and alliance backed noobs will take advantage of the system. The rest will see how, on top of all hardhisps involved in the NPE, they are being left behind since CCP considers that their subscription money is not enough...And then, how it is players' fault if their susbscription money isn't enough for CCP? CCP should adapt to their income, rather than blackmail the players about being left behind in a competitive game. Mike said that vets will take advantage of system by making perfect toons and striping unnecessary skills. You saying that noobs will benefit by accelerating with help from alliances or just soloing (I will do). CCP will make more money... So why are you still against while all groups in win-win position? |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 15:07:41 -
[25] - Quote
Public Relation wrote:Oh no with this new feature, people will Pay to win...
Ok, lets put this in perspective:
I am rich beyond belief, and hear about a game called EvE with huge interstellar war etc. Ok so i decide to play the game:
- I buy the game, set-up sub. - I buy a few hundred plex, i put them on the market low enough for a fast sell. - When those plex are sold i have a few hundred billion isk in my wallet - After some research on the web i buy a few high skilled Titan/carrier/dread character, and a high skilled pvp character.
Then i convo the leader of one of the best alliance in the game, i explain that i am rich and propose to inject a few billion isk every month in his alliance if he get me a decent place in his organisation, he agree and i then get to there staging system, buy all the cap/subcap ships i need with the best mod possible.
So in less then 48 hour i have "pay to win EvE". I did this with the feature already available in the game...
And suddenly people get upset because "now" someone can "pay to win" with the skill trading feature?????????
Hilarious. Rich man already have this opportunity without SP trading system. He just need to buy toon from Bazaar or ask for it from sponsored alliance. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 15:39:45 -
[26] - Quote
Charlie Nonoke wrote: BTW, I also hate the idea.
Why? |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 15:50:17 -
[27] - Quote
Charlie Nonoke wrote:General Lootit wrote:Charlie Nonoke wrote: BTW, I also hate the idea.
Why? I mean I hate the whole extracting SP and making it sellable. As to why, my sentiments belong with 98% of the other voices. It's not answer to my question. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 16:12:56 -
[28] - Quote
Public Relation wrote: Worse then skill point trading are Plex. For someone with enough money, Plex = instant unlimited amount of isk, if you are bright enough you will understand the full consequence for any parties in EvE to have access to unlimited ressources with absolutly no risk.
Only because someone wont or can't earn isk we can have free sub. When someone dumping PLEXes into the game market price droping which also beneficial for players. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 16:30:22 -
[29] - Quote
Public Relation wrote: Also my opinion on the subject of "pay to win" is simple, isk or skill point wont make you win fight, so no there is no "pay to win" only "pay to get what you want faster".
See. There is no reason to afraid payers so much =) |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 17:30:53 -
[30] - Quote
BirdStrike wrote: You don't need a system to buy SP then do you, you can fly almost all t1 fits within your first month in game. If SP makes no difference and its all about player skill why does this argument even exist?
Because PvP is only one of many in-game activities which may requiring more SP than that. |
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 19:11:07 -
[31] - Quote
Etara Silverblade wrote:As many have said, this sounds like a bad joke and I can't believe the CSM isn't fighting this loudly and publicly. Any CSM that hasn't come out against this already is not going to get my vote next election.
I am against character sales and anyone who buys characters is just looking for an easy win and doesn't actually like the game for what it is. They are second class citizens and CCP should not promote it or any other form of payment for skill points. If they are in need of money then they should raise the subscription price because I'd rather pay more and know my skill points are worth something.
Skill points are a reward for loyalty to the game and now CCP wants to cash in on the loyalty or lack of loyalty of some players. There is no much need in that because many players speaking for themselves in this thread. But still agree with you about representing pesonal reasons(not feelings) by CSMs.
I'm not looking for easy win but for a faster way with effort from my side with in-game activity. Earn some isks and invest them into SP. It's much better than waiting while my skill training.
When feature will be implemented then you will find out how much your skill points are worth. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 20:37:28 -
[32] - Quote
Etara Silverblade wrote:General Lootit wrote:When feature will be implemented then you will find out how much your skill points are worth. Right now my skillpoints are priceless and putting a price on them cheapens my loyalty to the game and the time I spent getting those skill points. Right now time in game equals skill points and after this is in, money will equal skill points. It's that simple and I will have none of it. Not only RL money but isks too. Actually you will have a choice put in-game activity and earning isk with it, wait until skills are trained or pay RL money for PLEX and sell it on market to buy SP injectors. So you may continue waiting train time if don't want to pay with isks or with money. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 20:57:58 -
[33] - Quote
Sean Crees wrote: How are you going to treat people that are currently in this state, where they have skills injected and trained but don't have the support skills for them?
You can't put SP in it until all required skills are trained. I had some free SP when Vanguard came. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 21:11:55 -
[34] - Quote
Maekchu wrote: They were most positive about the fact, that newbies will have an additional goal to work towards. Meaning, one more reason to actually undock and do something, instead of just subbing for a month and stay docked while the skill queue is running.
That my personal reason why I keeps supporting this idea. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.18 21:45:03 -
[35] - Quote
Vodar Valimian wrote:This is such an epic bad idea that i cringe just thinking about it.
Here are my 2 cents.
- Cent 1 - Having a perfectly skilled character in any specific field used to be a testament to the patience and dedication of the player who built the character. These characters are rare because the investment in time and sacrifice is significant.
But no longer. Want a perfect (insert major ship type here)? 30 min and currency (poof). The fact that a character with the combination of these skills were so rare was a testament to the player who invested years in their creation. Remove the scarcity, remove the value. This idea so cheapens the game and the existing characters that it is hard to take it seriously.
- Cent 2 - How does this make any sense at all. The whole point of clones and transfer of memories is that you transfer your memories. How can you transfer someone else's experiences.
Bottom line, this is a sickening and obvious cash grab and I predict it will make eve just another (play to win) (fail) game.
Thanks,
Vodar Toons higher than 50m SP still be unique because of small effectiveness of SP injector. You can transfer your experiences by teaching (how it happening IRL) but it's side question. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 00:52:29 -
[36] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: I define "pay to win" as any feature that is locked behind a paywall that another RL poor gamer can't unlock no matter how much time and effort he spends in the game.
Is SP Trading pay to win? It is, for these reasons: 1. SP Trading has no upper bound. If I make 1 SP mule on an account using MCT, I can give my main 1.6M SP per month (80% of 2M) extra. If I have 2 SP mules, my main gets 3.2M SP per month extra. The only upper bound is real money, and someone with lots of money can easily "out-perform" someone who is just playing the game without paying extra money. 2. CCP has not responded to the question of how they would prevent RMT on SP. My belief is that it's not possible. Characters are "big bundles" of SP connected to accounts that can be IP tracked to determined if they've switched hands. PLEXs are cheap enough officially during Amazon sales that it hardly makes much sense to RMT PLEX in the first place. But SP will be an ubiquitous currency that will be traded everywhere. And there is nothing that stops people not currently subscribed to the game from coming in and cashing out.
First case is not pay2win mechanic by your defenition because everyone will be able to buy extractor and injector on maket without any RL money involved. In second case I can't understand why cashing out is problem for you. They will dump injectors into market hence price will drop(so it also benifitial for not paying players). Or it just lowing peasure on supply which means same thing.
Sibyyl wrote: 1. SP mules making passive income on countless accounts 2. People blowing away the max 2700 SP per hour limit. Now there is no upper limit so characters could gain as much SP as they want per hour, because sky's the limit for an IRL rich player 3. Large alliances will be able to afford SP packets for their rookie line members. Small alliance won't be able to. 4. Instant gratification for Alliance Tournament participation. Cash in SPs and enlist as a contender (maybe Elise considers to be a good thing). Can you see how this will be abused when combined with #3? 5. People un-biomassing old characters to cash in on SPs. 6. EVE quitters subscribing for 1 month to cash in on SPs. 7. RMT RMT RMT RMT RMT 8. Awoxers, corp thieves, spies recycled with only a 20% hit in SPs 9. It will perpetuate the myth that SPs make you win EVE to people who will fork out money to chase this myth. This will be one of the biggest exploits that rookies will face coming into EVE, and when they realize SPs don't make them good players they will quit.
1.First you need to purshe for PLEX so it not so profitable as you might think at first sight. 2. Rich people can buy everything righy now, even titan toon without SP trading system. But it doesn't matter much becase he will be blown up without playing experience and support of people from allince. 3.Join if not able to defeat. 4.Can't understand that. 5.SP is assert. Transfering asserts is not abusing. 6.Same thing. 7.Don't know much about that but people who buying stuff with RL money already mentioned. 8.Good for them. More drama, pirates and spies stories. Every story need antogonist. It would be funny when corp will boosting spies and thievs. So maybe because of that they wont boost every rookie. 9.Will see
Sibyyl wrote: Part 2: SP Trading devalues characters.
EVE is a personality game. Our personalities are tied to characters, whether or not we admit it to ourselves. Chribba is unmistakably Chribba and no one else has the reputation he does. The reason why just about every CSM member and Chribba are against SP Trading is because SP Trading modularizes a character.
The argument is that the character is simply the sum of its parts. Deconstruct and reconstruct SPs and functionally you have the same thing.
A character is more than the sum of its parts, and in order for the idea of a character retaining value, the SPs it has trained have to remain "trapped" inside that character. Why? Because everything else the character does is also "trapped" inside that character.. the metagaming choices she's made, the history she has with others, the Corps she's joined, the ships she has destroyed. None of these things can be wiped out because I believe we have an unspoken agreement that in EVE what's happened to a character is something they keep for the rest of their life. How can Skill Points, which is the most fundamental non-meta mechanic in the game, suddenly be divorced from characters wholesale without devaluing characters themselves?
The argument is that if you don't like your skills, and you want a different skillset, then go to the Bazaar and buy another character. But in doing so you have to sacrifice the reputation and the name of the character you have now.. the one you don't like so much. A character's race and gender have massive significance inside the EVE roleplaying community. A character's name has massive significance in all of EVE's communities. These character qualities are part of an important sacrifice that is missing in SP Trading, and simply putting a higher ISK/SP price on it is missing the point.
Actually my charachter will be more valuble for me when I will be able to pump SP into because I have character which I like and SP points which I need. So it will be meaning more than char without skill and char without personality. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 07:58:12 -
[37] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I suggested 6 months of training, or roughly the first 10 million SP. That should be enough for a concerned noob. Original purpose is good enough without any changes. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 08:02:47 -
[38] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:CCP: C.) You do not, can not, buy Skill Extractors on the market and can only purchase through Aurum. (Profit for CCP) *Obviously open to debate, just thinking of CCP gains as a company.
You are quite wrong. Citate from dev blog
Quote:Both Transneural Skill Extractors and Transneural Skill Packets can be freely traded on the market for ISK |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 08:16:42 -
[39] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:General Lootit wrote:Syn'Drakkahr wrote:CCP: C.) You do not, can not, buy Skill Extractors on the market and can only purchase through Aurum. (Profit for CCP) *Obviously open to debate, just thinking of CCP gains as a company.
You are quite wrong. Citate from dev blogQuote:Both Transneural Skill Extractors and Transneural Skill Packets can be freely traded on the market for ISK This idea is at its early stages and thus open to change depending on opinions in the community, my idea is exactly that. I am not enforcing or confirming your quote will take place. Simply putting my idea to the community and CCP. Idea that something avalible only for RL money is defenetly bad because it's pay to win mechanic. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 08:33:59 -
[40] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:
Ok, lets for example say this:
You have 5M SP in mining Skill. You do not mine anymore and would like to change your proffesion. You purchase 5x Skill extractors for -ú10 and you use 5 Skill Extractors to receive the 5M SP from you mining skills.
You then have 5M SP unallocated. The time invested into those mining skills does not go anywhere, you can simply re-distribute into gunnery or the possiblity to flying a new ship.
Going from mining to flying a new ship does not win EVE. You are paying for a convenience, this is not a P2W mechanic. As stated in my main post, you apply an SP Cap to stop abuse.
In EVE "Pay 2 win" term has meaning that someone who wont to pay can't accses same features which payers does. |
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 09:23:06 -
[41] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Urziel99 wrote:Allowing CCP to sell SP from the ether is the very definition of pay to win. No chance that will pass muster with anyone. The only thing this proposal does is allow the trading of skill points already earned from one pilot to the other in a smaller way than the character bazaar. No, what it does is remove the consequences of the choices that character made in regards to name, SP allocation and character interaction & history. Buying a char from the bazaar still forces the new owner to deal with those consequences, good and bad. So you want to keep people suffer for their desire to gain more SP? Or for decisions were made not by them but by another people? |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:15:25 -
[42] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: I must play the game to achieve something.
In case of traning you really don't. Set up traning quee and wait until it done. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:25:23 -
[43] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:having things hidden behind arbitrary waits may have been good when the game was new and they had to have some form of pacing... but there's no need for pacing 12 years down the line. We need whole system rebalance then, rather putting make up on the corpse. Avatar based system was took from RPG game with attributes and skills, if not working properly it's a point when need close look up and change. All I hear: "you may compete but you need to pay". Edit: Dave, it's become "Dave personal thread about SP", we all know your opinion about it by now. Do you ever sleep? Take a day off, or week maybe. Yo don't have to quote every answer in this thread. He's a Dev and this was his idea. He needs support or else he may get terminated from CCP. I also support this idea. Can I be a Dev too? Pleeeease =) |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:40:34 -
[44] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Syn'Drakkahr wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Syn'Drakkahr wrote:This is accepted by the majority of players because it is not instant win, there has been a process and developement integrated into each character bazaar sale, which all takes time.
as does creating a TSP. this system doesn't provide an instant win - some one still has to train the SP just like the bazaar system so it will still take time. But effectively, you are just purchasing the SP and not time. Lets say: Your rich in RL, you purchase 100 Plex and sell it in game to purchase 200m SP character on the bazaar. The time and effort put into that character has always been around since it was created, you are rich enough to purchase a decent toon. Shame you dont know what to do with it. You are now restricted to that toon, his SP skills and past history. Each individual character has fundimental Values and standards which make EVE, EVE. Taking the time and effort away from that specific character to put onto the market for ISK / -ú is not right in my eyes. which is exactly what you can do now, on the character bazzar. you're buying a big ol' lump of SP. "Taking the time and effort away from that specific character to put onto the market for ISK / -ú" - you're literally describing how the bazaar works. If it's exactly the same, then why do we need it? Do explain. In my opinion it's not the same thing. SP trading system more reliable and safer source of SP. Users of it less depending of chosies were made not by them but by sellers. So it's much better. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 11:37:20 -
[45] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote: This devalues SP and Time, therefore devalues the vet's and players that have supported the game since day 1. It goes against most values and standards of the player base.
It can't devalues something that not for sale.
Syn'Drakkahr wrote: But effectively, you are just purchasing the SP and not time.
To create SP somebody need to wait training time and then sell it.
Syn'Drakkahr wrote: At this current stage, the update means people will simply set up SP character farms and sell the SP on the market for gains.
Firstly you need purshe for PLEX and extractors to be able to farm SP. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 12:45:37 -
[46] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:General Lootit wrote:Syn'Drakkahr wrote: This devalues SP and Time, therefore devalues the vet's and players that have supported the game since day 1. It goes against most values and standards of the player base.
It can't devalues something that not for sale. Syn'Drakkahr wrote: But effectively, you are just purchasing the SP and not time.
To create SP somebody need to wait training time and then sell it. Syn'Drakkahr wrote: At this current stage, the update means people will simply set up SP character farms and sell the SP on the market for gains.
Firstly you need purche for PLEX and extractors to be able to farm SP. Quotes: 1.) You devalue the time players have spent in EVE online by making TIME & SP so ready available. 2.) Enough farms & SP sales will make everyone hit MAX skills in a SHORT amount of TIME! = No one is UNIQUE! 3.) WELL DONE! 1)It will devalue training time for sure but is it makes your char so speacial like one of the bazaars toons or time which you spend for actually playing or personality which you make? Maybe you just afraid that someone make example from you and rearange skill like you did? I think it's reason to proud if someone make examples of you.
2)Farmers need massive supply of extractors so they are much depending from price on the market. If everyone will farm SP like this it wont be profitable because of high price on extractor and low price on SP. Market will balace it. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 13:18:54 -
[47] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:Quote: 1)It will devalue training time for sure but is it makes your char so speacial like one of the bazaars toons or time which you spend for actually playing or personality which you make? Maybe you just afraid that someone make example from you and rearanging skill like you did? I think it's reason to proud if someone make examples of you.
2)Farmers need massive supply of extractors so they are much depending from price on the market. If everyone will farm SP like this it wont be profitable because of high price on extractor and low price on SP. Market will balace it.
1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!2.) PAY 2 WIN You are not constractive any more. If you want to continue dialog please be more specific. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 13:26:16 -
[48] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Maekchu wrote:I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying an items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone. Buying items with plex and buying items+SP with it is not equal. The only advantage you have with plex is that you don't have to farm pve content in game for ISK (for example). If you want to help new players by introduced proposal items they have to pay anyway, because they don't have enough SP/ISK/experience to earn ISK effectively. It the end it's always the money. I'm not against baazar, it's necessary evil. I not against other players respec their SP (I don't give a s*** about it). I against lie that this will help new players. It won't, they have to pay RL cash. I'm that newbie that will you use it without any money involved and I don't mind if another one will pay for SP. So please don't speak from us all. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 14:01:33 -
[49] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote: Removing time to skill by making it payable to get instant SP removes the Unique qualities that makes EVE a sandbox.
Nobody wont remove skill quee. Change only will make new options available and all players will have same accses to it.
Syn'Drakkahr wrote: 30+k players that can purchase SP from the market is not unique.
So I make a conclusion from your statement that you think - only quantity of skills points makes players unique. I so much doubt that everyone will train same skils and there no chance that even small group of players will be able(or wishing to) to maxing out every skill because creating new specialized toon will be cost much cheaper than maxing out single charachter.
Someting about uniquemess |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 14:45:09 -
[50] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:[quote=Daniela Doran]We aren't injecting new SP in to the game. We simply allow players to trade the resources they have for the resources they want. Then maybe let older players have a go at the SP trough as well? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, right? Prestige is nice, but it doesn't put a sleipnir or chimera on my table. Vets could benefit from that by creating new perfect toon by stripping unnecessary SP from main to him or just buy injectors from the market. |
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 15:26:46 -
[51] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Dror wrote:Why not take that even further? Remove SP, so players can really trade the resources they would. Sure, but I'm working with what's on offer here. With SP trading "fitting SP to a clone" becomes a similar task to fitting modules to a ship. Obviously those with knowledge will come out of top. No one says "but allowing vets to buy whatever mods they want will give them an advantage" or "they can just use their isk to fit the ship perfectly!" because it's such a stupidly obvious point. Obviously they know not to mix guns, dual tank or fit 3 MWDs unlike the newbie they may fight. No one proposes a progressive tax on the mods market to hinder vets, so why one on SP market? That change not about humiliating vets but about helping newbie to test more activities in shorter time. So they could choose their specialization which they like. Don't be jealous - you already have huge advantage. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 16:45:13 -
[52] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:General Lootit wrote:That change not about humiliating vets but about helping newbie to test more activities in shorter time. So they could choose their specialization which they like. Don't be jealous - you already have huge advantage. So...just give them more starter SP? This thing just looks like an reasonable attempt to make things easier for newbies (good, sure, whatever) but then goes completely off the rails by haphazardly trying to pay lip service the economy, then further mangling it with diminishing returns and whatnot. No, thanks. originally purpose is good enough. Main issue of free starting SP thats it's free. It doesn't encourage to participate in game and just "makes life of newbie easire". I talked about not easier but shorter in terms of time. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.19 17:59:08 -
[53] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote:Lets talk also about the social effects this feature could have, instead of focusing on payment and the pure mechanic. If it has been mentioned before - well heres another one repeating it :)
The Training Queue is in fact the most beautiful and elegant feature in eve. All these "problems" people are complaining about are imo. the needed core of this game.
Not beeing able to skill everything you want in a short time forces players to whisely specialize their characters and forces them to work together. Maybe i need someone who processes my ore, hauls my assets, produces my ships and so on.
The introduction of alts and multicharactertraining enabled players to refuse cooperation. Why should i work together with someone else, dividing the income, if it-¦s simply possible to train an alt that does exactly what i need, instead of this other person. (High Plex prices are only further adding to this - it-¦s simply not economical to do so, depending on where you live in the universe.) Also the character bazaar has added to this. ofcourse there is a cap in the amount of alts one is able to sub, the offered chars on the bazaar, it softens this problem a bit.
But i think we all know the negative effects and how eve, it-¦s economy and community is suffering due to this.
if we are allowed to buy sp, create alts in the specific way we need them within a few clicks, this problem will potentially only increase. The imo skyrocketing plex after introduction will also add to this.
I have the feeling that the calls for sp transfers have it-¦s root in the selfish greed for more, not to be dependend on others, not beeing forced to cooperate with others that can do something oneself doesn-¦t. And ofcourse ccp happily tries to deliver cause they are also driven by their own greed for more money, ignoring their own facts and statements.
Isn-¦t it so that players, socialising with others are most likely to stay, while others, playing S.ingle P.layer O.nline are more likely to quit?
Isn-¦t this furthermore forcing eve to become more the game of alts than it is now?
And if theres a (high) chance that something like this is happening - why is ccp introducing it, although they tell us that the opposite is needed for a healthy game: cooperating players? I found post for you in that bloody mess. P.S. Would be much easier to find it if forum had bookmarks of liked posts. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 18:49:13 -
[54] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:ColdBeauty wrote:Moac Tor wrote:I can definitley see why the leaders of PL, goons, and others are so fiercely in favour of this. Exactly what I thought as soon as Elise Randolph went on the charm offensive on reddit and various goons started backing this on the forum. ... It will allow them to bring more people in to the game. How is bringing more people in to the game in any way a negative? There is no way they are going to hand out these skill packets to new players, they'll use them primarily for creating alts for various tasks. It is very efficient to use them up to 50mil SP, with 50mil focused in a specific area you can do a hell of a lot. This will not help new players at all. Like I said the only new players who will benefit are those that can afford to spend loads of real money on purchasing them. How I already said I'm newbie that will benefit from it without any RL money involved. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 19:45:12 -
[55] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote: You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming. You'll be priced out the market. I've seen it many times, new players coming into the game with wild dreams of being able to PLEX their account and play for free but when reality hits they can barely even scrape together enough to afford their ships let alone a PLEX.
I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 19:57:41 -
[56] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:General Lootit wrote:So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all. don't take it too personal. you're not the only noob. Quote:Hi there, I'm a new payer in Eve online, I just got my first 2 millions of Skill Points and I know that getting anywhere in this game will take me years. That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. Any manipulations with this feature will result in deleting my character and canceling my account (well I'm paid till March but after ... bye, bye). What you should do in this game is to develop much more personal way of playing (not changing anything in the game) just adding new features, like options to walk on the space ships, visit planets, add special mission (look at "Star Citizen"), I know that's a lot but this game is from 2003 and is getting better and stronger, please DO NOT GO THE BAD WAY. I believe in your team and I hope to stay on a round for many years to come!!!
Lucas Starwalker... I speaking for myself. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 20:03:20 -
[57] - Quote
Lucas Starwalker wrote: That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. . Are you aware of Character Bazaar? What do you think about it? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 20:26:06 -
[58] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:General Lootit wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:General Lootit wrote:That change not about humiliating vets but about helping newbie to test more activities in shorter time. So they could choose their specialization which they like. Don't be jealous - you already have huge advantage. So...just give them more starter SP? This thing just looks like an reasonable attempt to make things easier for newbies (good, sure, whatever) but then goes completely off the rails by haphazardly trying to pay lip service the economy, then further mangling it with diminishing returns and whatnot. No, thanks. Original purpose is good enough. Main issue of free starting SP thats it's free. It doesn't encourage to participate in game and just "makes life of newbie easire". I talked about not easier but shorter in terms of time. Then...give every newbie a buffed cerebral accelerator that exponentially decays? If a system is soooo fragile that it requires half or more the playerbase be shut out in order to work, then, it's probably not a good system. In any game, let alone the famously "single shard, one economy" game. It's much like free starting SP. It doesn't encourage to do anything in the game. Just passive gaining of SP. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 20:33:54 -
[59] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:General Lootit wrote:I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all. Good, so your opinion on that subject doesn't matter. You perform scam, have lots of ISK, buy a toon on market. You can afford it. Not every noob will perform a scam, will have lots of cash and buy toon from market. I'm not speaking for you, I'm speaking for them. You a perfect representant of insta gratification generation. If CCP wants to lean player base on such players I'm outta here. This game will become even easier than now. They may earn money this way at start, but insta gratification crowd has short focus plane, and gets boring fast. Are you understand that tou just slandered me? If you could check my posts history you might notice that I earned money on FW. It was rude. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 21:03:35 -
[60] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:General Lootit wrote:Moac Tor wrote: You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming. You'll be priced out the market. I've seen it many times, new players coming into the game with wild dreams of being able to PLEX their account and play for free but when reality hits they can barely even scrape together enough to afford their ships let alone a PLEX.
I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all. You should be spending that ISK on ships and having fun. Not grinding FW plexes to try and advance your training que, trust me I've done it and it is boring as heck. What you don't realise is that we experienced players have been in this for years and we've tried all the ISK making methods to death barring some of the huge alliance level stuff so we are speaking from experience. This is not going to be accessible to you unless you are one of the very small percentage of players who become a successful trader or scammer, or you grind like hell to advance your skill que. Agree it's boring like hell. I intend to try combat exploration and thats why I waiting for quee. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.19 21:57:41 -
[61] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:General Lootit wrote:Moac Tor wrote:General Lootit wrote:Moac Tor wrote: You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming. You'll be priced out the market. I've seen it many times, new players coming into the game with wild dreams of being able to PLEX their account and play for free but when reality hits they can barely even scrape together enough to afford their ships let alone a PLEX.
I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all. You should be spending that ISK on ships and having fun. Not grinding FW plexes to try and advance your training que, trust me I've done it and it is boring as heck. What you don't realise is that we experienced players have been in this for years and we've tried all the ISK making methods to death barring some of the huge alliance level stuff so we are speaking from experience. This is not going to be accessible to you unless you are one of the very small percentage of players who become a successful trader or scammer, or you grind like hell to advance your skill que. Agree it's boring like hell. I intend to try combat exploration and thats why I waiting for quee. If your looking at combat exploration then why not try some hacking and data sites whilst you wait. And trust me, hold onto that ISK as you can never have enough ISK in Eve. I already tried. If you will convince every newbie which you met in that than of course they will be poor as you described. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.20 06:20:12 -
[62] - Quote
XIRUSPHERE wrote:You are going to allow the ISK rich of eve to create armies of highly trained day old alts that will create chaos everywhere.
Patch must be named "Clone Wars" |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
7
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Posted - 2015.10.20 07:30:40 -
[63] - Quote
Now I'm looking through thread and found this perl
Obsidian Crowe wrote:Please god no. You will make EVE play to win
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 08:21:06 -
[64] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote: In a game that is already quite difficult for newer players, and a game seriously struggling with retention, I fear that this will seem as an almost certain pay-to-win barrier that new players feel they must pay, just to get a leg up, and that it will send a bad signal to them. Of course, I know that in EVE there is no true "pay to win" but I do worry about perceptions.
My perception is earn more isk to be less bored from waiting for traning quee. So it's encoroug me to paticapate in the game and not waiting offline until quee is done. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 08:35:59 -
[65] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:I don't know if I want to be part of it when that happens. Could I have your SP when it happend?
P.S. I feel that I have right to be a bit jerky with you because you did so with me. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 09:24:07 -
[66] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:General Lootit wrote:Sentient Blade wrote: In a game that is already quite difficult for newer players, and a game seriously struggling with retention, I fear that this will seem as an almost certain pay-to-win barrier that new players feel they must pay, just to get a leg up, and that it will send a bad signal to them. Of course, I know that in EVE there is no true "pay to win" but I do worry about perceptions.
My perception is earn more isk to be less bored from waiting for training quee. So it's encoroug me to paticapate in the game and not waiting offline until quee is done. If you have run out of things to do then that is not the games fault but due to your own lack of imagination, sorry but it is just a weak and childish excuse. I have always had the opposite situation myself. Of course there are moments when you think I wish I had that skill to level V and such, but I've never been short of goals which I have yet to achieve. Broaden your horizons. I doesn't excusing for my opinion. I didn't run out of things to do. I have plan and budget for it. I'm not going to change it because some stranger told me to do so. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 09:56:01 -
[67] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account". And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already. Then new farmers will come because it become more profitable hence price will go down. Also need to consider that EVE have many allinces which are constantly fighting against each other. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 10:00:05 -
[68] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:not a new thing - people already start accounts just to train a character to sell on the bazaar. characters that have no baggage, corp history, etc.
completely clean and focused characters created expressly for the purpose of being turned in to isk. pretty sure mr.epeen who was posting earlier is some one who does this, along with many others. I was thinking about boosting main char by farming free alts, just by cost of extractor. For low level char that may be a thing. First of all alts need to be hit 5m SP to be able to extracting. And I doubt that Devs will allow to extract from trial accounts. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 10:22:12 -
[69] - Quote
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread Devs must be happy
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 11:14:22 -
[70] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Anything thats put on the bazaar whether its an old toon or a fresh tengu pilot that has been just trained in station and nothing else has to have its name listed on the bazaar for selling, you then watch when its sold, what corp it joins, where its located.
Thats all gone now, instaspawn toons are an invisible entity.
It's in favor of old fashion spying when you need gather information not from machines but from people. I think it defenetly good for social interections. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 11:45:37 -
[71] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: Anything thats put on the bazaar whether its an old toon or a fresh tengu pilot that has been just trained in station and nothing else has to have its name listed on the bazaar for selling, you then watch when its sold, what corp it joins, where its located.
Thats all gone now, instaspawn toons are an invisible entity.
It's in favor of old fashion spying when you need gather information not from machines but from people. I think it defenetly good for social interections. At least you offered an excuse over daves dodge ball again, spying a chance but unlikely. it wouldnt take more than two occasions of huge fleets being hot dropped for the demonising of new players taking there first steps out of hisec to be jumped on through for fear of what they maybe bringing with them. Strong guys bullying weak ones. It was and it will be. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 12:25:09 -
[72] - Quote
Syn'Drakkahr wrote: But again, you've missed the point, narrow minded or rather over look the fact that SP will be ready available for each person. People with RL Cash or significant amount of ISK can purchase their way to MAX SP! In a flicker or a button. Usually it would take 12+ Years to cover a Maxed account.
I doubt that everyone will train same skils and there no chance that even small group of players will be able(or wishing to) to maxing out every skill because creating new specialized toon will be cost much cheaper than maxing out single charachter. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 12:42:17 -
[73] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:We don't need skill at all then. They are arfitificial barriers that prevent us from doing things in game that have subscription. Now CCP want to charge us for speeding up training for something we don't need. Because it the end they won't matter. I can beat week old player that bought character on market/paid for SP, because of my experience in the game. Catching up by money won't solve anything, I already have experience that new player don't have, and he can't gain it in week of playing. PvP is one of many in-game activiies which also requiring SP. But addition SP also could contribute to PvP especially when you joining fleet because they demand spetial fits(doctrine). |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 12:57:54 -
[74] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:General Lootit wrote:PvP is one of many in-game activiies which also requiring SP. But addition SP also could contribute to PvP especially when you joining fleet because they demand spetial fits(doctrine). and you didn't understand a word from what I wrote. Maybe exactly opposite?
Jeremiah Saken wrote: I can beat week old player that bought character on market/paid for SP, because of my experience in the game.
General Lootit wrote:PvP is one of many in-game activiies which also requiring SP. But addition SP also could contribute to PvP especially when you joining fleet because they demand spetial fits(doctrine). Now is clear enough?
Also
Jeremiah Saken wrote: We don't need skill at all then... training for something we don't need
You are just taking too much. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 13:07:16 -
[75] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: and you didn't understand a word from what I wrote.
OK. Than I can't unerstand something meaningless. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
9
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Posted - 2015.10.20 13:15:40 -
[76] - Quote
Dror wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Eve has always been ultra-capitalist. Let the skill-point market be free. Isn't it more like removing SP to let the market be free. It's not removing. Change just adding additional option to boost SP by in-game activity. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
9
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Posted - 2015.10.20 13:53:15 -
[77] - Quote
Dror wrote: A game without a reason to log in is barely a game worth a subscription.
Good point |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
9
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Posted - 2015.10.20 14:28:53 -
[78] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: i saw a kid who couldn't be more than 12 reading a comic book yesterday, with no iphone/pad/notebook/laptop in sight
No need to get personal. It's rude. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
9
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Posted - 2015.10.20 15:18:24 -
[79] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Rawthorm wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Rawthorm wrote:
Ah there is that phrase again. Pay to Win. At best it's Pay to Access. Skill points don't provide victory, they provide access to specific micro-portions of game content (such as ships and modules) and by extension greater content beyond as a consequence.
In any game that has no ending no big bad beastie to slay to say i win then one could take it that you set yourself a certain target to attain. I'll be happy when i can finally get my ass into that blackops / shield maxed / missiles sorted / engineering done EW sorted / taken me 14 months but ive done it. Instaspawn - 10 minutes - same goal - Pay2Win A fair point and I used to think this way until I realized that goals centred around a mechanic I can barely influence were not really goals at all. Working flat out to cobble together the resources for the games first Nyx before any of the alliances of the time could get around to build one, that was a goal and one that I felt immense pride for accomplishing. Watching a clock tick down to say I could finally sit in said Nyx on the other hand, while satisfying when that day came hardly triggered a sense accomplishment in me. I didn't earn it beyond sticking my 10 bucks a month into the game and watching the timer count down so why should I feel any pride in that? If I could have worked my ass off for the ISK to then inject the SP necessary at the time I think I'd have felt like I'd earned those skills a lot more. I understand what your saying also but most of the sheep now in this thread seem to think whilst your setting a goal there is nothing else todo until you hit your achievement point. Were you not working you ass of in other parts of the game to get isk, protecting a station, even running missions to keep yourself occupied. When goal setuped other things just doesn't matter anymore. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
9
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Posted - 2015.10.20 15:41:27 -
[80] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:[ So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work. actually I many times said #1#2#3#4 I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
9
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Posted - 2015.10.20 16:05:05 -
[81] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work. Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained. Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts. Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said. Don't let agnger speaking for you. Cool down =) |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.20 16:21:32 -
[82] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work. Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained. Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts. Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said. Don't let agnger speaking for you. Cool down =) Its not anger here, there would be alot more * than visible if anger spoke. If anything i feel the same way when WoW sold out and went down the shitter of you can achieve anything you want as long as you stick your hand in your pocket and pay for it. Now you really get it personal. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.20 16:27:36 -
[83] - Quote
Dror wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote: When goal setuped other things just doesn't matter anymore.
Its comments like that which make the for's challenges harder and i dont see why you would even want to play a game like eve or anyone be associated with anyone who thinks in that way. Your saying i want to be in my blops ..... right not playing now not worth my time. So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work. That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP. https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s I'm owner of copys Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together. Awesome games. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.20 17:25:51 -
[84] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work. Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained. Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts. Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said. Fun fact about insulting psychology
I said "reapeat himselve" You said "parrot"
Who now my parrot? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.20 18:29:03 -
[85] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Please dont take this the wrong way that was very informative and a good read but didnt actually say why a player would stay any length of time if a core mechanic of the game was such a problem they would continue to play for anything upto 12 years .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=h-jfvjMoe9Y&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLOiGGb44McruXcndTtzUUlu#t=1002 Because theirs ships blown up and they are seeking for revange |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 06:41:37 -
[86] - Quote
Merior wrote:Looks like a cheat mode that will allow the gankers to replace their character with a fully skilled rookie under a new name or have I misread it? It's not an option for gankers because to be effective in terms of DPS they need to activate PLEX. Most important DPS skills are forbiden to learning on trial accounts(like "Small Blaster Specialization"). PLEX is way too pricey than sec.tags |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 07:03:54 -
[87] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:General Lootit wrote:Merior wrote:Looks like a cheat mode that will allow the gankers to replace their character with a fully skilled rookie under a new name or have I misread it? It's not an option for gankers because to be effective in terms of DPS they need to activate PLEX. Most important DPS skills are forbiden to learning on trial accounts(like "Small Blaster Specialization"). PLEX is way too pricey than sec.tags thermodynamics is probably the most important. pretty sure they already get that given to them upon account creation now, if i'm not mistaken? Thermodynamics not really is important as Small Blaster Specialization http://www.minerbumping.com/2015/10/catalyst-training-under-new-system.html |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 08:11:02 -
[88] - Quote
Kairg wrote: I am however open to the idea of using the proposed system to exchange skill points within the same character.
Dev blog
Quote:We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. Many people who against this idea are whining about that consequences are not important anymore but it is not the case. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 08:41:25 -
[89] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: Rent 3 billion
Right scum as were looking after you your also going to have to stump up 5 mill TSP a month < Extortion but still legal in EvE its a commodity now so as such not covered by anti scam
Now that is an interesting thought, the character bazaar Is protected and monitored. Are you saying that this is so safe that it has no need of that? Anybody see any safety issues if it is NOT the same as the bazaar? Or are we all trustworthy enough that such safeties are not needed? m the safety feature is that you can just go and buy SP from the market. it cannot be abused . Abusing is too loud word for that. I think calling it part of traiding warfare is better. And any warfare is legit part of the game.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 08:48:00 -
[90] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:that way it can only benefit the new or deeper pocketed players and will not effect the ecomony in anyway. But
Levi Belvar wrote: You keep saying that but as we are now you can't, that concept doesnt exist .
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 09:12:35 -
[91] - Quote
Tav Breil'ya wrote:really sad story for newbies to lose a multi-billion capital ship, just because they don't know how to play it, despite the skillpoints in the bank. Bad decisions leads to bad consequences. First rule of EVE Be able to afford a loss. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 09:37:09 -
[92] - Quote
Hey Levi don't ignore me. We are a friends. Right? or parrots
Levi Belvar wrote: because we protected you against xyz you pay us 5 mill TSP tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater. .... Right we have 80 mill is TSP this month in the kittty, we can use this to create a new logi wing in flashjacks crew.
Levi Belvar wrote: You keep saying that but as we are now you can't, that concept doesnt exist .
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 10:00:22 -
[93] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:you say that like renters are magically living in rental space for free right now.
newsflash; they aren't. Dave you either need to goto bed or shut your yammering you have no clue about what im talking about here obviously. Levi you are too emotional person. Also your statments are controdict with each other and you can't admint that you are maybe wrong in something. This are good reasons to assume that you are demagogue. Sorry. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 10:38:20 -
[94] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lordy, Mr Dave, I am beginning to suspect that you are a 24 hour a day typing bot :)
Keep up the good fight. it's threads like this that remind me why i go to reddit rather than eve-o to discuss ideas, to be honest. (more dev replies, for a start) That the devs respond more outside of their own ingame forum, is, bad, bad, bad. When it comes to public relations, CCP remind me of the old John Cleese, 'how not to do it' management educational films. Reddit is better because of design of comments which allow to popup more popular opinion. If devs implement something like this here then many people will blame them on wrapping votes.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 11:44:08 -
[95] - Quote
BTW about reddit. One of whining posts which I can't argue with.
Quote:So I've been playing EVE since before space even existed, well before China started farming WoW gold in the 1800s. It's always touched me in places I never expected. I often sit and think how much headway I could make in life if it wasn't for internet spaceships, but the ship spinning alone brings joy and meaning to my life. But then this new thing was introduced to the game. This new thing will completely break and ruin the game! In the past, I did the old thing in the old way, and that was fine. I did it, I was fine, and nothing went wrong. But now there's this new thing... why?! There are many reasons why this new thing will break the game. The equipment we farmed will have different value now. The work we did will be easier or harder for subsequent people to do. It is different. It is not the same as it was before. The way it was before is how I want it to remain. It is new. I don't like it. These are just the things that come to mind after barely glancing through the first paragraph of the devpost. But, enough of that. CCPlease, can we please stop this new thing before it's too late? I can tell you all about why the new thing is bad. I did the old thing day in, day out, and I was better at it than all of you. I had Mastery VI of the old thing. If you think my being too used to the old thing is why I dislike the new thing, you are sadly mistaken! For I have like Mastery VIIXIV of the new thing, too. Even though it's new, I'm still better at it than all of you, even the people who are better at it than I am, and I've been better at it since before I was born. But, still, the old thing was better, and this new thing is bad, and wrong, and badly wrong. Devs, CSMs, ISDs, OGBs, IPAs, please hear my pleas. This new thing will change the game from how it was before, and this cannot be allowed to happen. Stop, now. I know you'll listen to me, because you always listen to meGÇöand only meGÇöbecause we've known each other all our lives, even when we didn't know it. We used to do the thing (not the new thing, the old one) by the place, and you once told me, "Nez, your three semesters of Game Development at the community college give you more knowledge and experience than all of us together, and we'll let you veto any changes you don't like." Well, that didn't happen. You went behind my back, and you did it to my face. Anyway. I'm not bitter, though I will unsubscribe my eleventy accounts at the drop of a hat if this thing isn't changed. I just want to be clear: I am basically the unofficial CSM chair with my dank skills, this new thing is bad, and the old thing is the only way that anything should ever be done. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 12:07:27 -
[96] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Rawthorm wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave,
Game as it is now , No skillpoint trading in it.
rent 3 bill
because we protected you against xyz you pay us 3 bill tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater There is no skillpoints in this senario so you bank the extra cash, distribute it, buy minerals - There is no instant character progression it doesnt exist.
Game with skillpoint trading
because we protected you against xyz you pay us 5 mill TSP tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater.
Now times this on how ever many they could use this concept on Right we have 80 mill is TSP this month in the kittty, we can use this to create a new logi wing in flashjacks crew. You realize that even now in the scenario you talk about, they could have just gone to the character bazaar and bought a bunch of new logi pilots just the same right? . Only if they are there. This is a key facet you're all (probably deliberately) missing. There is a finite supply. Furthermore the bazaar cannot react to a balance or meta shift instantly. Toons take time to grow, overall SP gain is tempered by the existing stats limiting how fast it can be grown because the core skills are off map from the ship and weapon skills, for example. If tomorrow suddenly maels were the go-to line ship, there wouldn't be a flood of those perfect pilots on the market overnight, it would take time. These packs though, allow focused min/maxing to harvest the most SP possible on a single map and dump it elsewhere, they also mean that large blocs could react instantly to a new meta, if they so they choose. Today, there's absolutely no way possible for me or anyone else to roll up to the bazaar and walk out with 50 sabre pilots tomorrow. Once this goes live, I can spit them out this afternoon, never mind tomorrow. And don't give me cost, large blocs reimburse caps and supers, if you think they can't and won't spring a couple of hundred billion to hit the ground running on a new meta, well then you must be new here. Further undermining the cost argument is the "newbie tool" fallacy - and if it's not affordable for newbies, what's the goddamned point of all this. If a newbie can afford it, people like me and others can afford to burn them for funsies. edit: Oh and Dave, reddit is just an echo chamber for this, there's a serious and dedicated downvote campaign if any dares speak against it. I'm newbie which will use that. Even if another noob could't afford that by soloing than he might find a corp/allince which will boost him.
Big allinces beating small ones. Any news here? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 12:16:34 -
[97] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.
I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.
I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them? I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice. Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart. There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one. Agree. They should do what they already introduced =) |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 12:36:00 -
[98] - Quote
afkalt wrote: which you arguably do not need ... You're going to feel pressure to buy packs to match meta shifts
Let me decide what I need and what I feel.
afkalt wrote: sell the soul of eve ... literally the second coming
More catchwords please.
afkalt wrote: introduce a pay/grind to bypass mechanics for those rich enough
For those who actually playing.
afkalt wrote: you're going to be competing with vets who can and will spew out alts for a dedicated purpose overnight. They're going to slap you up and down new eden no different to before, probably worse.
Are you forgot that EVE is sandbox and I'm already doing it? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 12:51:23 -
[99] - Quote
afkalt wrote:And if you don't feel pressure to keep up, why are you fighting so hard for a method to do so? In short because I queed up my skills.
Be jerky as you can it always helps. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 13:05:16 -
[100] - Quote
afkalt wrote: So you do feel the need for these? The pressure?
I feel that I will have an option to grind some isk to be able to boost my SP what allow me to do what I want without waiting so long.
afkalt wrote: Can you genuinely not see this potential (I venture) probable result being people grinding isk even harder to chase that white whale of "being able to compete"?
It's their choice if they want to outcompete someone. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 13:10:39 -
[101] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Go watch fanfest videos and check out what happens to newbros who chase PvE. Actully I already posted that link. You are not so thoughtful, are you?
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 13:39:14 -
[102] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention. Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D) Understood that you can buy these with isk
Please stop putting words in my mouth.
afkalt wrote: Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".
It's all matter of choisies and person who choose. If people like something let him to do so. Doesn't matter for how long he playing, matter that he like it. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 14:03:13 -
[103] - Quote
afkalt wrote: So you HAVEN'T watched and understood the video YOU linked?
Uh-huh.
I can't understand why are you jerking all around.
afkalt wrote: I guess we will have to agree to disagree since you seem to think making a change highly likely to increase newbro burnout is a good thing because it suits your selfish requirement of instant gratification.
So if you defend your position it makes you selfish? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 14:42:16 -
[104] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:It's all matter of choisies and person who choose. If people like something let him to do so. Doesn't matter for how long he playing, matter that he like it. Thats so comically funny, Its like the story of the kid who went to the party not stopping for anything just heading for the ice cream and cakes. He ate so much he threw up and had to go before the fun and games started. Very apt for player retention and burnout Levi I officially declare that I'm runed out of arguments for you... until you enter this capcha and confirm that you are not a parrot.
P.S. Thanks afkalt for inspiring me. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 14:51:45 -
[105] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: "Leveling your raven" is an achievement (even if a poor one) that at least keeps people around for a bit. "working 2 extra hours at McBurger joint to afford to buy the SP to level the raven to the point where it can do boring lvl 4 missions" is not an achievement lol, it's a recipe for quitting EVE.
Undocked bazaars toon also can achive it but does it contribute anything in the gameplay?
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 15:04:38 -
[106] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: pidgeon
Levi are you did it agian or just loving birds so much? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 15:19:24 -
[107] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: pidgeon
Levi are you did it agian or just loving birds so much? Nah theyre just flying rats, mainly found crapping all over historic buildings and monuments or could that be a euphemism for what you want to do with eve. Come on Levi. I belive that you are able to overstep your hate. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 16:33:21 -
[108] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote: So, you're evidence for the success of SP is that the game has had subscriptions? So has WoW -- is that great game design/
A game model like WoW is hardly a fail Dror, 12 mill active subs in its heyday of wrath grossing 300mill per annum even now a paltry 5.6 mill active subs. Im sure EvE would like even 33% percent of those active accounts running. Maybe it was so successful because players saw that their progress depending from theirs actions in the game but not from subbing time. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 17:06:38 -
[109] - Quote
Norian Lonark wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote: So, you're evidence for the success of SP is that the game has had subscriptions? So has WoW -- is that great game design/
A game model like WoW is hardly a fail Dror, 12 mill active subs in its heyday of wrath grossing 300mill per annum even now a paltry 5.6 mill active subs. Im sure EvE would like even 33% percent of those active accounts running. Maybe it was so successful because players saw that their progress depending from theirs actions in the game but not from subbing time. In wow new expansion comes out.. someone plays for a couple of days rushing to get to latest level uses up all the content.... gets board... then waits for the next expansion.. moaning about the lack of content and end game. I cant even believe this is being used to make a point and shows what this kind of thinking leads too. You cannot compare wow to eve. They are both successful in their own right for very different things and attract people looking for different things in a game. Is this what we want EVE to be? Yes lets do it lets get EVE to appeal to the type of people who play WOW by turning it into a WOW clone that will work. I agree that it's very rough comparison. But I'm still sure that yours in-game actions are matter and progression must be depending on them in every term.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 17:18:44 -
[110] - Quote
Who knows why griding is so popular? Because most of the players are thinking that it's most profitable thing and who aren't think that way are called pirates, thieves and scums. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 17:21:48 -
[111] - Quote
afkalt wrote:General Lootit wrote:Who knows why griding is so popular? Because most of the players are thinking that it's most profitable thing and who aren't think that way are called pirates, thieves and scums. You can do better than that, come on. Only after you. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 17:38:25 -
[112] - Quote
afkalt wrote:General Lootit wrote:afkalt wrote:General Lootit wrote:Who knows why griding is so popular? Because most of the players are thinking that it's most profitable thing and who aren't think that way are called pirates, thieves and scums. You can do better than that, come on. Only after you. People who dont think like you are "pirates, thieves and scums". Good grief, you'd think this is C&P and I had a CODE affiliation! If you want to take away players from griding to PvP field than it must be more profitble than thing what they already do. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
10
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Posted - 2015.10.21 17:53:44 -
[113] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Or, you know, more fun. Which is it.
We don't play the same game, you and I.
Yes it's fun but you also need to cover the loss and be able to pay for PLEX.
afkalt wrote: Shouldn't you be off somewhere crying about being ganked?
Something is never changing. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
11
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Posted - 2015.10.21 18:24:16 -
[114] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote: So, you're evidence for the success of SP is that the game has had subscriptions? So has WoW -- is that great game design/
A game model like WoW is hardly a fail Dror, 12 mill active subs in its heyday of wrath grossing 300mill per annum even now a paltry 5.6 mill active subs. Im sure EvE would like even 33% percent of those active accounts running. Maybe it was so successful because players saw that their progress depending from theirs actions in the game but not from subbing time. ... and likewise, EvE allowed equal SP progression to those with limited time to play. A week worth of SP, is a week worth for everyone. Good point here. That man must be so busy because he earning some money so if he feel that he need more SP but have no time to play than he could pay for it. You also need to consider that free passive gaining SP is still here. Play Or Pay but only if you want to outcompete someone |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
11
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Posted - 2015.10.21 18:32:22 -
[115] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:Said this on slack and would like to post it here for all the people saying this is no different from character bazaar.
Character bazaar is bad for the game. There is a reason why it was removed. It was also brought back because people would still trade characters using illicit means which also resulted in many other security problems like account hacking etc.
Think of it as a bad drug. They decriminalized it because keeping it illegal did not stop people from using it and led to many other problems. What they are proposing is that now we efine the drug into a much more addictive form and push it to the mainstream, advertise it to the public and put up billboards outside our schools for kids to try it. Time to funny thing. EVE forum was blocked in my country because of boosters(drugs) discussion on it. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
12
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Posted - 2015.10.21 19:06:10 -
[116] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:General Lootit wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:Said this on slack and would like to post it here for all the people saying this is no different from character bazaar.
Character bazaar is bad for the game. There is a reason why it was removed. It was also brought back because people would still trade characters using illicit means which also resulted in many other security problems like account hacking etc.
Think of it as a bad drug. They decriminalized it because keeping it illegal did not stop people from using it and led to many other problems. What they are proposing is that now we efine the drug into a much more addictive form and push it to the mainstream, advertise it to the public and put up billboards outside our schools for kids to try it. Time to funny thing. EVE forum was blocked in my country because of boosters(drugs) discussion on it. That's hilarious. Reminds me of the tweet from Fox Four I think saying how he realized taking about guns and bombs at the airport wasn't the best idea. Where are you from if you don't mind me asking? From mother Russia |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.21 21:39:31 -
[117] - Quote
Something about price on extactors. It will be always correlate with price on PLEX because payers want to maximize isk/$. So devs please make it affordable like 1/12 of PLEX in $ or less. In isk it will be cost 100m hence price on SP injector will be around 400m isks. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 06:50:35 -
[118] - Quote
Myevil Gankalt wrote:This whole idea is just awful.
The main reason I am against it is that it undermines one of the core tenants of EVE: Actions have consequences. Consider myself. I am, and shall always be, an evil gank alt. This life style has consequences. There is a certain group of people who, for whatever reason, do not like me. They even target me in pvp! If I decide to try another life style, I should not be able to burn this alt and roll a nice one which is skilled over night. I realize there is a character bazaar, but that has issues. Any character I buy might very well have been involved in some scam or corporate theft. In short, there are consequences.
I also don't like the idea of somebody buying 10 training alts as a farm to build one main character. OK. Lets do math. Assume that person have 10m SP. How much it will be cost to transfer it to the new toon? Answer a half SP because you can't extract from character with less than 5m SP. Also extractors need to be paid. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 07:10:06 -
[119] - Quote
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:Add Pay2Win, and this enthusiasm will vanish which will probably lead me into unsubbing also.
Today I re-subbed only because I want to support this idea. It will be your choice. We already figured out that it's not a pay2win feature because experience>skill points in PVP. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 07:39:06 -
[120] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Dynamus Deckerman wrote:General Lootit wrote:Myevil Gankalt wrote:This whole idea is just awful.
The main reason I am against it is that it undermines one of the core tenants of EVE: Actions have consequences. Consider myself. I am, and shall always be, an evil gank alt. This life style has consequences. There is a certain group of people who, for whatever reason, do not like me. They even target me in pvp! If I decide to try another life style, I should not be able to burn this alt and roll a nice one which is skilled over night. I realize there is a character bazaar, but that has issues. Any character I buy might very well have been involved in some scam or corporate theft. In short, there are consequences.
I also don't like the idea of somebody buying 10 training alts as a farm to build one main character. OK. Lets do math. Assume that person have 10m SP. How much it will be cost to transfer it to the new toon? Answer a half SP because you can't extract from character with less than 5m SP. Also extractors need to be paid. You still don't get it. No, he doesn't. He really really doesn't. Probably because he's (and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here) still sufficiently new he's not been exposed to the lengths eve players will go to in order to get an advantage over others. I doubt he's experienced people on safaris, experiences corporate spy/sabotage/theft. Hell I doubt he's set foot out of highsec tbh. It's not so hard to do math by your own for any amout of SP and figure out that respecing and transfering to yours another toon is not so cheap to do it on regular base. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 08:22:30 -
[121] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: General Lootit your priceless mate, you remind me of along time ago when we used to go roaming for macrominers with suicide alts, You'd bump them - nothing, start a chat with them and you get back a reply like - you drop rocks near boulders on house - We'd all fall about laughing then destroy it for some guy come along in an industrial just like Achmed .... i kill you i kill you all why you do this.
But I'm still doubt that you are a guy. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 08:28:57 -
[122] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Hell I doubt he's set foot out of highsec tbh.
And you are still jerky and not thoughtful. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 08:51:34 -
[123] - Quote
Dynamus Deckerman wrote: I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?
Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 09:21:56 -
[124] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Dynamus Deckerman wrote: I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?
Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub? You only have to see in newb chat when you create a character these days, one of the most asked questions you see fly past amidst the help with fittings or where do i go is - How can i earn enough to get one of those plex and play for free. Then you wonder why the subs base is on a downturn, Nobody is paying for my free sub because i dont have one. Ive always paid by card for my sub, Again i dont come here to see what i can grind hours and hours of endless monotony for i have fun 95% of the time and pay for it. Maybe thats the problem the people that always want things for free/the easy option have short attention spans, dont see the big picture and quit. You forgot that I'm one of them and also was interested in how to grid for PLEX. And I did it.
If you refusing to earn isk than pay for them or you want them for doing nothing? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 10:14:57 -
[125] - Quote
afkalt wrote: No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.
And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.
I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.
It's not a pressure - it's an option. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 10:34:27 -
[126] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:
So by your own admission your prefering the instant gratification mode over working for something, any fool can grind.
Only if working is instant gratification. But it's defenetly not "instant". |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 10:53:16 -
[127] - Quote
afkalt wrote:General Lootit wrote:afkalt wrote: No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.
And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.
I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this. It's not a pressure - it's an option. You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets. Yes I did. But it's one of the reasons. I even don't mind if vets will have benefit from it.
afkalt wrote: See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.
The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.
I have plan to do and it's requiring SP. I'm defenetly wont change it when some stranger tell me to do so. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:05:26 -
[128] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:
So by your own admission your prefering the instant gratification mode over working for something, any fool can grind.
Only if working is instant gratification. But it's defenetly not "instant". If you would of said Grinding for fun i could accept that but not "griding time to SP" - What happens when you start grinding for sp's then are you going to actually pay for your subscription or you hoping to grind now even more for plex and sp's - where does your space job end and your fun start, skillpoints will only make it so much easier as youve so often pointed out . I refer to ours old convestion
Jeremiah Saken wrote: They may earn money this way at start, but insta gratification crowd has short focus plane, and gets boring fast.
Levi Belvar wrote: instant gratification mode
I feel that I have right to be jerky with you becase you did so. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:11:16 -
[129] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Your posting doesn't make any sense, you contradict yourself and/or place glass walls around you and try and say the game is doing this.
Peoples like Levi doesn't bother about it so why I should? Force him to admite that he was wrong in something and I will answer you. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:47:39 -
[130] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Nothing in Eve is "free" - Your time has value.
Totally agree with - time has value. But what time more valuable for gameplay. That time what you spend offline while skill training or time when you actually playing?
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:51:48 -
[131] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:SP effects everything in the game -- pick a topic? Motivation, competitiveness, mastery, depth, socialization, referrals, diversity.. How long have you been playing the game, what has motivated you to continue to play something that has such fundamental flaws. Are you driven as General Lootit to only find your progression through means of grinding to pay is there nothing to spark your imagination to affect other players around you. Why do you even play it ? I dont want research, protips anything else just Your views. Beware Dror it's a trap |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 12:31:52 -
[132] - Quote
Thanks all for having discussion(Yes Levi it's happaning). It was fun even more funny than chating in-game. I'm going to Dave from Marketing department to drink couple of coffee Good luck everyone! |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 16:17:38 -
[133] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:General Lootit wrote:Thanks all for having discussion(Yes Levi it's happaning). It was fun even more funny than chating in-game. I'm going to Dave from Marketing department to drink couple of coffee Good luck everyone! Bring sugar. We've run out up here. Sorry Dave but we have bittervets only |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
14
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Posted - 2015.10.22 17:22:13 -
[134] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:"Motivation" comes from vision, goal setting, and celebrating small successes .
Resistance / Do i have to Answer / i Choose too.
Resistance / I dont want to do this Answer / Realign your tasks
Resistance / I can't do this Answer / Realise that effort creates your rewards.
Am i missing anything here. Vision and imagination? The skill queue is no inspiration for fantasy. Goal setting? Can't do much more than SP allows. First of all Imagination isnt even in that statement, But the main one which you seem to gloss over with you making such an issue with motivation = Realise that effort creates your rewards. Your all about wanting a level playing field where is your effort. Maybe the same place where all of the ores and markets come? So after all your baffling with bullshit and blinding with science, it boils down to you want to do everything in game with no input what so ever. Ohhh how cute. Who now ran out of arguments? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 17:33:49 -
[135] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Ohhh how cute. Who now ran out of arguments? Lol not me bud, now you go crawl back in that corner Please mercy! You are most bitter vet I ever see. Maybe you need go back to quake3. It will never ever change... I promise you. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 18:11:35 -
[136] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:To build a player's feeling of ownership towards its character, game makers should provide equal opportunities for any character to win a battle.. They have, you put in the effort and you will be rewarded with the character you have spent time building. The 12 year old character didnt start off with 250m skillpoints the same as you saying you couldnt get anywhere because all the area's you went to required t3 doctrine. Just because you cannot have it there and then means its wrong ??
Levi Belvar wrote: You keep saying that but as we are now you can't, that concept doesnt exist .
Always funny to watch how person punching himself. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 18:25:35 -
[137] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:To build a player's feeling of ownership towards its character, game makers should provide equal opportunities for any character to win a battle.. They have, you put in the effort and you will be rewarded with the character you have spent time building. The 12 year old character didnt start off with 250m skillpoints the same as you saying you couldnt get anywhere because all the area's you went to required t3 doctrine. Just because you cannot have it there and then means its wrong ?? Levi Belvar wrote: You keep saying that but as we are now you can't, that concept doesnt exist .
Always funny to watch how person punching himself. I would change your translator Lootit, Your counters are making you look like a bellend. Sorry but I can't understand -+-¦-é-â-ê-+-+-ï-¦. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.22 23:18:16 -
[138] - Quote
Kasumi Gotto wrote:I started the game back in Beta. If I had my original character, I'd probably be over 200M SP by now. Time like that has given me a lot of opportunity to reflect on what I actually like to fly, roles I like to fill, etc since I have tried them all. Eve's skill system is not a forgiving system in this regard. You will spend real time putting your character through training to try out a role only to find out you either really suck at or just didn't like after all and now want to move onto something else. My original character had A LOT of areas like this. I thought about for years what I would rather have if I could move skill points around.
While some people are claiming that they don't like this system, I am convinced it is the typical overreaction you expect with any change. While yes, it does launch you further ahead if you have lots of ISK, one needs to also read some of the key points made throughout the blog post. High skill points don't account for much. It does get you into that next ship faster but it still isn't an 'I win' button. You only have to look at Suitonia's YT channel at him killing people with far more SP than him as an example that refutes most of the claims people have been making. I am not sure what there really is to abuse in such a system with people with lots of ISK getting more SP when they probably could just buy a higher SP character through the bazaar regardless.
Today I have this new character as well as 4 others. If this skill trading goes into affect, I have already been planning how to use it. The characters I have I bought to catapult me forward in skill point amounts instead of having started over from scratch. It left me with characters with names I don't like though and I would plan on making one I do like and get the skill points I would want in the skill areas I do want to have. I was envious of the Dust 514 skill system for being able to do offline training into an unallocated pool to put the points where you want plus earn extra through combat and mission successes. Such a thing isn't really possible in Eve unfortunately but it wasn't so harsh under such a system to start over on as Eve can be
As a result of this system, I could finally reduce myself to one account and 2 characters instead of 2 accounts and 5 with a bunch of skills on their lists I don't want or need. It will give me, and others, a level of choice and control that hasn't been available for the past decade. Thank you for sharing your opinion. I'm really glad to hear that at least one vet accsepting opportunities of the new system.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 01:13:33 -
[139] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote: I think a nice phasing in of the idea would be to start with the top's untradable and 'for personal use only' to see how common That would be prior to pushing it to full trade status.
Are you implying that it must be used for respeccing? If it's the case
Quote:Why have diminishing returns at all? We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. And whole porpose of the system is wanishing with your suggestion. I mean how to make sure that system is working without switching it on?
Mike Azariah wrote: Yes, it does favour the vets. Why not?
Agree, they also should benefit from it. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 08:10:46 -
[140] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Wait a minute... why are some people talking about free to play now? I mentioned it as a tinfoil hat explanation for the massive power of the TQ-III server, but CCP can't be considering that seriously... right? I mean, the foundation of EVE (what is left of it) are the social bonds. And social bonds are incompatible with the mass scale of poor quality noobs associated to free to play. Imagine if you can, the "Help" channel as a General chat of a F2P. Imagine you are a good potential EVE player and your first task is ignoring the vey plsce where you could ask for help if weren't for the hate-drooling kiddos scrolling it at 1,000 lines per minute... And then consider how CCP has done zill to improve the game experience of the usual MMORPG player, aka the solo casual PvE (highsec) crowd. The one that now is leaving highsec slow but steady, killing EVE one sub at a time. The one which never gets a chance to play EVE his way, rather is encouraged to stop playing his way and please start playing the game "right", multiplayer second-jobbing anywhere but highsec gameplay. It would be weird if CCP would rather turn EVE upside down than do something for their bread and butter... the silent, often scorned, unglamurous but abundant and reliable highsec player. Seriously: Why the mention of free to play? Are you all crazy? Before argument that expirence>skill points: p2w p2w p2w Now: f2p fp2 2pf Acronyms makes me crazy! I could have free sub only because someone paid for it and let me buy it. If you want to decrese population of "free" players just don't sell PLEX on the market. But Irish people wont appreciate that decision. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 09:12:38 -
[141] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Surely it is equally absurd to suggest that the largely negative feedback from a forum where only subbed players can post should be ignored.
afkalt wrote:
I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice.
Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart.
There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one.
He is on your side BTW. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 09:31:28 -
[142] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: does not invalidate my point.
Yeap, it does not invalidate but only contradict. And it's very comfortable for you because if start arguing with both of them then I will eventually contradict with myself. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 10:02:48 -
[143] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: it was never hard for me, I planned, I researched, I learnt by trial and error and all the while I was undocking and having fun in the game by actually playing it instead of worrying about this, that or the other. Good for you.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: you miss the point that you cannot tell another person what kind of game they like But I'm can pursuit only one goal at the time. And I want to trade my active playing hours(isk) for boosting my SP to progress faster at my plan. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 12:13:09 -
[144] - Quote
Vahligmarr wrote:Was hard for me to cancel
Quiting is most easiest way to deal with problems exept you are addicted one. If it's the case than it wont be lasting for long time until new dose.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 13:04:37 -
[145] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly? it can't be more than 80m. Well according to some in this thread it's 400m It's not enough for me. GIVE ME MOOOAR! |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 13:17:15 -
[146] - Quote
Oovarvu wrote:afkalt wrote:Oovarvu wrote:just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.
taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.
assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400
all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.
notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.
So let's call it a round 25 billion. I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet. Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC.... my point was the cost for the new players. He just want to talk. Let him speak |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 13:36:16 -
[147] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Oovarvu wrote:afkalt wrote:Oovarvu wrote:just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.
taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.
assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400
all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.
notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.
So let's call it a round 25 billion. I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet. Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC.... my point was the cost for the new players. I realise this, my point was that old hands can do hilarious things with it, newbeans either cannot afford it or will be pushed to PvE and statistically therefore, most likely to quit. We need to ripoff PVE, blow ships of newbies(according fanfest) and they will stay with us FOREVER... exept mortals players of course. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 13:47:51 -
[148] - Quote
Metal Hunter wrote:What will be farther? Extraction of SP from the taken capsule will be the following step? It is inflated -¦-â-¦-+-î, the capsule under a grid and the special module installed by the ship takes at the caught victim of SP. Maximum quantities of SP 500 000 for an injection. -Æ-+-¦-¦-¦, -¦-¦-+-¦-+-¦-¦-¦-¦, -+-¦-¦-¦-¦-¦-î, -ƒ-â-é-+-+. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 14:21:22 -
[149] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Faster training is not beneficial to the game, it is beneficial to those who will be able to afford to use the proposed mechanism which will not be new players.
I have no words for you. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 14:37:44 -
[150] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:General Lootit wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Faster training is not beneficial to the game, it is beneficial to those who will be able to afford to use the proposed mechanism which will not be new players.
I have no words for you. Handy, means I don't have to listen to them then... I'm apologize for my reply but I'm quite tired from repeating myselfe. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 15:29:13 -
[151] - Quote
TomParad0x wrote:Doubting replying to a 200 page thread will be of much benefit, but here it is.
I've played since 2004, and I honestly don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, to me personally I feel like I would like this, I could trash some stupid stuff I trained on this character (wasted SP) and actually do something with it.
But on the level of the whole game I'm honestly not sure how I feel. The intent of this is not to help new players "catch up", because new players would either have to buy the SP via PLEX, or somehow make the isk these will cost to buy in game. I don't really feel like the character bazaar needs help.
I don't think this would ruin the game, as others have said we can already buy SP. Main issue of bazaar (by CCPs version) is EULA violation. Also it's misleading new players. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 16:05:04 -
[152] - Quote
Alexander Tekitsu wrote:Runaway thread, Sorry if any of this has been covered/proposed in the past couple hundred pages ( obviously a hot topic ) which I honestly can't think of reading.
I don't agree that it should just dump unallocated SP into your character. I mentioned in another thread that I like the Booster approach. now take the numbers here of a 500k SP packet, allow it to be injected like a booster. The rate that it increases your training is relative to the amount of SP you have.
Packet has a base "boost" rate across the board of +40 to all attributes. Using diminishing returns calculated at the time on consuming to modify these attributes determines how long it will run for. A fictitious set of numbers below.
At 500k SP it would run flat out +40 until it has surrendered the 500k SP ( 138.9 hours or 5.8 Days ) At 5,000k SP it would run at +30 until it has surrendered the 500k SP ( 185.2 hours or 7.7 Days) At 50,000k SP it would run at +4 until it has surrendered the 500k SP ( 1388.9 hours or 58 Days )
So the more SP you have, the slower the consumption rate and 0 instant gratification.
Since you can't run 2 at the same time, this makes them more beneficial to newer players as an older player would not be benefited by buying 10 at a time ( since that would take about 2 years to run through ) vets already concern about that. No need to get it worse. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 16:34:16 -
[153] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Regarding new players, it would be an additional option available to them, and an additional goal to motivate them to play. Considering we all got by just fine without it, I'd say they'll be at least a tiny little bit better off if this change kicks in?
The concern would be that this pushes them to turbo-rat, thus burn out even faster. More ratting>more isk>more (imagined) success is how they are likely to see it. Get rich or get bored trying! Thats our slogan
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.23 16:51:54 -
[154] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:afkalt wrote:In an ideal world, yes. However we're pretty far from one.
This thread alone is abound with people feeling pressure they can't "catch up" and rookie help is literally like russian roulette in terms of quality of information supplied.
A shedload of people already get caught in the ratting trap, imagine how many more will be pulled in if they see that "if I can just rat 4 more hours, I can get into that battleship!" is actually possible? I have a horrible feeling the answer is "far too many". I actually agree with your concern, that certainly will happen in some cases. On the other hand, setting aside the extreme burn-out cases, an additional motivation to newbros to do stuff could be quite positive. 'I'll just play skill queue online for the first few months' in many cases will be substituted by 'I'll actually do stuff, so I'll train a bit faster, learn and have fun at the same time!'. Also, consider it from a RL $ point of view instead of an ISK-grinding point of view. I've been playing since 2.5 years. With 1, then 2, now 3 accounts I gave CCP at least 1,000$ so far. That's a friggin' huge amount of cash! Granted, it's been 15 to 45$ per month instead of all together, and yes I enjoyed myself all of the time so I got what I paid for. But it's not so crazy to think that many newbros will do the math and think that paying, say, 100$ for a headstart is a good deal... Maybe, but there would be better ways to get newbros a head start than this, I think. It might work out, but I'm, wary. don't worry be happy.mp3 |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 19:04:30 -
[155] - Quote
Burk Nysar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Havenard wrote:This. All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game? I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more. A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction. Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy. Do you see a relevant difference here? It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it. Now you are really hurting vets feelings. They all gonna quite and we will miss them. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 19:20:23 -
[156] - Quote
Burk Nysar wrote: Enough people that CCP thinks it's a worth while investment of time to develop it. I may be the exception, but I am willing to spend some cash to reallocate some of my SP that I have wasted on this character
You will make PLEX cheaper. Thank you. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 20:37:06 -
[157] - Quote
Havenard wrote:Dror wrote:Protip: the thread's already discussed that this could benefit veterans the most. Yeah sure, vets have a lot to gain paying the cost of 500k SP to get only 50k SP, and boy, they need 50k SP so hard, its going to change the world for them.... Are you people even thinking before talking? If they super rich in terms of isk they could create new specialized toon, so they actually benift from it also. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 22:05:59 -
[158] - Quote
Guys we made it ! No more targets on d-scan. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 22:36:09 -
[159] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Havenard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I think the simpleton is in your mirror, since I was describing an arms race.
"I want to buy skills to compete" is useless when the competitors also can buy them and have the expertise and experience to invest their money better than you. Yeah, sure, arms race. I'm sure someone will pick you, as individual, and train exclusively things that counter you (there must be a lot). And this guy is a rich veteran, that for some reason doesn't already have skills to fly whatever he wants trained, he needs to buy a lot of SP tokens for that. Yeah, looks like a very realistic scenario to me. Allegedly, "Noobs" want skills to compete with "vets" but "vets" also could buy them if they need to and nullify the skills bought by "noobs". Who is talking about me? Lo que la naturaleza no da, Salamanca no lo presta... noobs have skills for competing, vets have expirence for outcompeting. So it is beneficial for both sides. Anything else? |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.23 23:40:08 -
[160] - Quote
Gaufres wrote:You made your choices, live with them. .... Bad history is just that, Live with it. So I must live with consequences of actions what I never comitied because you told so? |
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.24 09:21:33 -
[161] - Quote
AngelFood wrote:Doomchinchilla wrote:ISK for SP, this is what happens when we let people that haven't played EVE for greater than 2 years onto the CSM. How can this even be remotely considered a good idea?
Not once have vets ever seriously thought this was a good idea. This is just bad. Just 100% bad. Csm? you mean devs right? Yes this is what happens when you let stream popular players or super alliance popular players become devs.
Thats why CSM had so massive kneejerk reaction
Steve Ronuken wrote: CCP did talk with the CSM about this, before all of you saw this.
They are become offended and then they wanted to show a power to CCP above community. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.24 10:18:51 -
[162] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:
So if the Vets, and moderatly skilled use there skillpoints to create alts or to boost exisitng, your example is then flipped, Newbro's have no experience, no skills and the vets have more skills on more characters, experience and the newbro's are sitting wondering WTF is happening.
Levi Belvar wrote: you either need to goto bed or shut your yammering you have no clue about what im talking about here obviously.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.24 11:09:47 -
[163] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: who could exploit it. Repeat after me: who could use it... use ....it .... use it. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.24 11:36:49 -
[164] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:So if the Vets, and moderatly skilled use there skillpoints to create alts or to boost exisitng, your example is then flipped, Newbro's have no experience, no skills and the vets have more skills on more characters, experience and the newbro's are sitting wondering WTF is happening. that's no different to the situation we're in now. most vets already have a myriad of characters with a range of skills. Dave, that proposal i put forward of CCP doing it instead of it being player governed still retains its diminishing returns. It then benefits those who need it more than older characters. Its not something i want at all, but if something has to be implimented then shouldnt it be for the specific groups and not all who could exploit it. can you please stop pretending that big alliances don't already have every type of pilot they need. it's honestly getting boring listening to you and the other people bleating "exploited by veterans". people like goonswarm, the older veterans in PL, the long time players in what used to be the n3 coalition (wherever they ended up) all have all the pilots they need with all the skills they need. the game has been out 12 years. between 12 years of skill training and however long the char bazaar has been operating more SP for these people is basically a total irrelevance. they already have a character with perfect skills for every activity they need. the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters. why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most? I said all who could exploit it, i dont need lists of corps nor alliances or quotes.Why does it need to be player orientated over CCP, If it was for customization purposes only then they would just give us the ability to remap our skills once a year same with looks / race. Not in this year. You was a very bad boy.... VERY.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.24 12:35:25 -
[165] - Quote
Vahligmarr wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Vahligmarr wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters. why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?
If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong. if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong? right... ok... If this "enjoyment" is linked to "if you want to have an advancement over others with patience, just pay extra, and you can have it instantly" then YES experience>skill points |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 12:45:17 -
[166] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Players or CCP.
No CCP -> No EVE -> No Players |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 13:18:56 -
[167] - Quote
Jadon Wallace wrote:I got a suggestion for possible alternatives to this, why don't CCP make it so characters start out with no SP and then when someone goes to create there character they get the option of picking a specific skillset/career path that interests them (after being prompted to watch videos on each type of said 'career' path) where x amount of skillpoints is placed in the desired area? Eases entry for new players and it would seem to be a better method than what is being proposed here. Skills without effort not what I want. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 13:41:02 -
[168] - Quote
Eli Depran wrote:I still think CCP is grabbing for way too much real cash, it's getting obnoxious. There are so many other things that need to be worked on. Why not make a compromise and allow a remap of skills, with some strict limitations, and add something to the game that is usable by anyone. A big mistake the majority of new players make and what I made many times is spreading skill points all over the place. If you want to keep people interested, I assure you that people like to try various things at first, then later decide on what they really want to do, and then regret completely unfocused skills all over the place. They very well get disheartened, and then either quit, or make a new character and try to focus skills better, or buy a character. Most often I believe that people get disheartened and unsubscribe. You must be missing some pages of thread and I understand why. Dev blog
Quote:We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. Many people who against this idea are whining about that consequences are not important anymore but it is not the case.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 13:53:39 -
[169] - Quote
Eli Depran wrote:Dev blog Quote:We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. Agreed, but what I mean by strict limitations, would be something similar to attribute remaps, not something that can be done rapidly. Maybe because attribute remaping is a thing what already exist and it's not helping much?
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 14:39:03 -
[170] - Quote
Eli Depran wrote:General Lootit wrote:Eli Depran wrote:Dev blog Quote:We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. Agreed, but what I mean by strict limitations, would be something similar to attribute remaps, not something that can be done rapidly. Maybe because attribute remaping is a thing what already exist and it doesn't help much? I'm talking about a system with limitations similar to attribute remaps, but applied to respecs if implemented, so they are still a very important choice. Attribute remaps themselves are very important, and can make a big impact, to the effect that it greatly increases the value of a character on the bazaar. You need to consider that bazaar is issue by itself because it's violate EULA and misleading new players. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 15:17:51 -
[171] - Quote
Eli Depran wrote: The EULA is stating that it's illegal to sell characters to somebody for real money, not for the trade of ISK through their own system. What they are saying is if you buy any in-game assets that they own, including characters, for real money outside of the game, or sell, that is breaking the EULA. The character bazaar is implemented by CCP themselves, and is entirely their own assets, as such does not break the EULA.
Yet still misleading new players. Anyway I think that in-game SP trading is much better than baazar because I can choose personality. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 16:05:34 -
[172] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:You never answered where from?
You are too young for answer on that type of questions. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
30
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Posted - 2015.10.24 16:07:47 -
[173] - Quote
ColdBeauty wrote: vets are going to abuse this system and push the price up
There is such thing called market. If something is too pricy than more sellers will come and price will go down.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
31
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Posted - 2015.10.24 16:28:04 -
[174] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:General Lootit wrote:ColdBeauty wrote: vets are going to abuse this system and push the price up
There is such thing called market. If something is too pricy than more sellers will come and price will go down. Not as much as you would imagine - Not long ago plex were 500 mil. If an item is put on the market too much cheaper than what others are selling it for - It will get purchased in bulk and relisted at the higher prices. If one of the idle rich in Eve believe they can profit (or just mess with the market) by buying all of a popular item that is available - They will - and turn a nice profit on it by relisting it for more. As Alavaria Fera said - The joy of player-driven markets. So it's traiding warfare and not abuse. Legit part of the game as any warfare. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
31
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Posted - 2015.10.24 16:35:52 -
[175] - Quote
elitatwo wrote: Can you hear that sound?
Right, that is the sound of EVE Offline.
funny. Do you know why? Becuse it's just joke. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
31
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Posted - 2015.10.24 16:48:14 -
[176] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:elitatwo wrote:How about NO?
If people don't like what they are buying they simply should not buy it. Countless times I said already we do not need more super pilots. Noobs are noobs for a reason.
In addition to that you are killing your own game. EVE is supposed to last forever. How do you want to accomplish that if your playerbase is done training in 2 days?
Can you hear that sound?
Right, that is the sound of EVE Offline. you people have this really really strange idea that eve has but one activity - the skill queue. you are aware there's more to eve than the skill queue... right? Why you asking me that, iv'e been telling Lootit and Dror that a few thousand messages ago, but apparently its not worth the effort. i'm not asking you that. seriously dude, learn to read. Im just replying Stark style You are best in that kind things. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
31
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Posted - 2015.10.24 17:10:03 -
[177] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D
But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar. the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them. Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^. In the other part i surely believe :D It will show what post was liked when you click on them. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
31
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Posted - 2015.10.24 17:15:53 -
[178] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Not sure how that can be related unless you check every single like you get. If you have so much time to waste, i am speechless :D
But interesting that you are pointing that out implying people like your comments, while it is just couple of you fighting for the "same cause" here, liking each others posts :D uh, when some one likes your post it shows up in the top right in the notifications bar. the person liking my posts (it tells you who likes them in the notification) has yet to post. i've never even heard of them. Yes, I am aware of that, but it does not show on which page the post is ^^. In the other part i surely believe :D It will show what post was liked when you click on them. Yes, as I said in my first comment. Somehow I am not surprised you and Dave are on the same side :D Same thing about you and Levi. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
31
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Posted - 2015.10.24 17:42:22 -
[179] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote: Same thing about you and Levi.
Cannot comment on his posting, I am not reading his posts much, I am mainly challenging Dave all the time, you see I did not even pay attention to you. :) But maybe you can provide me some counter arguments on my concerns? Before just labeling me same as someone else who you think is wrong? Or you will just join "noise without arguments" club? I don't mind if you repeat your concerns but I'm can't guarante that I will be able to invalidate them. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 18:29:30 -
[180] - Quote
It will take some time to reply you but HELL it's good reading. |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 18:59:56 -
[181] - Quote
First part
Don ZOLA wrote: After that turbo start he realizes the game is quite slow ... older players will utilize this function to spec new alts
New players could do same thing as old ones e.g. spec new alts when they hit 50m
Don ZOLA wrote: 2. People will focus even more in ISK grinding, in order to buy chars, get the sp. I mean you can never have enough sp, right? You can hope it will not happen, but I assure it will. That means that less people will PVP and we (bitter vets) will enjoy pvp like in good old games with much smaller numbers.
Hunters comes only when victims in place. More grinders -> more easy targets. It's rare type of profitable PvP and what I intend to try in the future. Post on reddit
Don ZOLA wrote: 5. People who like fair chances in games will quit as well.
In case if it wasn't sarcasm There is no such thing as "a fair fight" or "an unfair fight". There's only a fight. Circumstances are irrelevant
Don ZOLA wrote: He had trained every day for 12 years, to his optimized attributes, with implants, without doing any (at least visible) mistakes to be on the top for all these years. Now with this new option I will simply use my inactive accounts (you can check their sp) and spend cash to take him over. I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts I will give you money!!! (And that`s what this is about right?)
Matter of prestige. Only stupid and/or very rich person will dump his cash into one single toon. Specialized toons are much cheaper. So chance is exist but very small. Furthermore history of employee will show who is vet indeed. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 19:10:30 -
[182] - Quote
Devs post about pestige
CCP Terminus wrote: On a somewhat related note, to keep some prestige without a hard cap, there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints. If that's the case we could make both values available when characters apply to corporations, or people put their characters up on sites like eveboard. No promises though, it's still to early to tell.
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 20:53:31 -
[183] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:CCP has found out that the most of those who do not "integrate within society" but focus on solo roles (isk making) are the ones that quits the most and they are looking to find way to increase their retention rate.
Most importatnt value is blown ship within first month and not "integrate within society". I joined small corp but I'm still soloing(for real). So in what group am I? Data need to be interpreted.
Don ZOLA wrote:For all those years, majority did not complain about having to spend time to get sp, isk etc, and to remind you it was much harded than nowadays.
Why now? Caring for noobs? I don't think so.
Don ZOLA wrote: we have to look at whole picture, not just our own interest
We can guessing but data analyzing is a thing only devs can do in proper way.
Don ZOLA wrote: Ie people who get their isk by plexing already have some advantages over regular ones (they do not have to put time/effort to earn it).
Actual work doesn't count? Or you just pushing people to grinding? =)
Don ZOLA wrote: After that turbo start he realizes the game is quite slow unless he wants to keep spending more and more money to speed it until he gets comfortable with sp.
I have no permit to speaking for all of us(noobs) where is comfortable sp zone and I'm petty much sure you too.
You wrote There is no Instant Start Up Course to teach them everything in couple of hours.
Yeap. But also I know that everyone have different learning rate. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 21:38:21 -
[184] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Devs post about pestigeCCP Terminus wrote: On a somewhat related note, to keep some prestige without a hard cap, there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints. If that's the case we could make both values available when characters apply to corporations, or people put their characters up on sites like eveboard. No promises though, it's still to early to tell.
It is still not the same. That is like saying that in any competition there will be the 1st place for the ones who used doping and separate 1st place for those who did not. Top 3, 5, eventually 10 matters for "top"prestige, no one will care about #15 but he did not use "cheats". Still the number of people who care about it as prestige could easily be much bigger, added explanation below. Edit: Which does not mean there will be no unhappy top 100 players that got out of that list. Hard cap should be set at like 100 mils or something like that (or some amount where people already consider themselves to be "achieved' by the SP they have. And yes, that means nothing in terms of skills yet plenty are proud of their sp as accomplishment. "Cheaters don't permit for race" that is main rule of challanges. Simply don't count them. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 23:02:37 -
[185] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: That is your opinion. I think that in MMO games, socialization and integration have quite bigger aspect than the ship which is inevitably going to explode :)
That fine. You can have personal opinion. But let me show that your opinion mismaching with source of it. And I'm personally value source more than your opinion. "We can guessing but data analyzing is a thing only devs can do in proper way."
Don ZOLA wrote: What I mean is that we cannot judge on it based on our own benefit from it as you did.
I'm writing here only because of my personal benifit. If someone has no personal reasons to defend his(?) position than I found it very strange. He hiding personal reason or just wanting attention.
Don ZOLA wrote: But you are taking one sentence out of whole paragraph.
Following your first rule
Don ZOLA wrote: Agreed and I know players who actually "suffered" because they were capable much more than their sp allowed them. Though there were not many of them. But they had patience and did not whine too much about it. Simply do what you can and wait till you are ready for the next step.
They must be happy about new system =)
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 23:08:19 -
[186] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: That is your opinion. I think that in MMO games, socialization and integration have quite bigger aspect than the ship which is inevitably going to explode :)
It's not my opinion. But let me show that your opinion mismaching with source of it. And I'm personally value source than your opinion. "We can guessing but data analyzing is a thing only devs can do in proper way."
Don ZOLA wrote: What I mean is that we cannot judge on it based on our own benefit from it as you did.
I'm writing here only because of my personal benifit. If someone has no personal reasons to defend his(?) position than I find it very strange. He hiding personal reason or just wanting attention.
Don ZOLA wrote: But you are taking one sentence out of whole paragraph.
Following your first rule
Don ZOLA wrote: Agreed and I know players who actually "suffered" because they were capable much more than their sp allowed them. Though there were not many of them. But they had patience and did not whine too much about it. Simply do what you can and wait till you are ready for the next step.
They must be happy about new system =) |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 23:40:35 -
[187] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: I do not understand what you mean by this?
1. Don't tell people everything you know =)
About social aspect
I can't find any major disagreements but we still have opposite opinions about new system. It must be time gap. I must noitice that I don't really care about vets because they have advantage and expirince so they sould work out. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
34
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Posted - 2015.10.24 23:50:53 -
[188] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Devs post about pestigeCCP Terminus wrote: On a somewhat related note, to keep some prestige without a hard cap, there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints. If that's the case we could make both values available when characters apply to corporations, or people put their characters up on sites like eveboard. No promises though, it's still to early to tell.
It is still not the same. That is like saying that in any competition there will be the 1st place for the ones who used doping and separate 1st place for those who did not. Top 3, 5, eventually 10 matters for "top"prestige, no one will care about #15 but he did not use "cheats". Still the number of people who care about it as prestige could easily be much bigger, added explanation below. Edit: Which does not mean there will be no unhappy top 100 players that got out of that list. Hard cap should be set at like 100 mils or something like that (or some amount where people already consider themselves to be "achieved' by the SP they have. And yes, that means nothing in terms of skills yet plenty are proud of their sp as accomplishment. "Cheaters don't permit for race" that is main rule of challanges. Simply don't count them. It is not simple as that. Because if they are spending tons of isk/money to get there they do not want to be considered as such. After all they are just using option which they were provided with, within the rules. And they want to claim their top positions fair and square. While on the other hand it is not fair to the ones who have been working on those positions for years, to be jumped over simply because someone is richer. Devs showed that they want to support vets in terms of prestige. Any wish =) |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
51
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Posted - 2015.10.25 08:13:56 -
[189] - Quote
Tess Rain, in case if you reading this, thank you for your support through past pages. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
60
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Posted - 2015.10.25 10:40:36 -
[190] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: Answer this one then.
When are you gonna resign from CCP?
Lol so mad. Also ccp seagull said this feature is imprtant to the future of the future of eve yesterday at eve vegas. Give it up lads, it's happening. Of course it is happening, it was clear from the start by the lack of the communication of CCP with players here. They did not want to discuss about it and to see what to adjust, they have decided on it and they do not care what players have to say :shocker:. Ah well, guess the players will send the message via subscriptions.
We all praying but god leaves us. Do you know why? thats why
P.S. Today is day to make some noise =) |
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
60
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Posted - 2015.10.25 10:45:16 -
[191] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: Answer this one then.
When are you gonna resign from CCP?
Lol so mad. Also ccp seagull said this feature is imprtant to the future of the future of eve yesterday at eve vegas. Give it up lads, it's happening. Of course it is happening, it was clear from the start by the lack of the communication of CCP with players here. They did not want to discuss about it and to see what to adjust, they have decided on it and they do not care what players have to say :shocker:. Ah well, guess the players will send the message via subscriptions. We all praying but god leaves us. Do you know why? thats whyP.S. Today is day to make some noise =) How is that different from any of previous days for you? :D Less arguments and more fun. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
60
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Posted - 2015.10.25 10:53:50 -
[192] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:
Of course it is happening, it was clear from the start by the lack of the communication of CCP with players here. They did not want to discuss about it and to see what to adjust, they have decided on it and they do not care what players have to say :shocker:.
Ah well, guess the players will send the message via subscriptions.
We all praying but god leaves us. Do you know why? thats whyP.S. Today is day to make some noise =) How is that different from any of previous days for you? :D Less arguments and more fun. He would need to have arguments in the first place for that. And I am sure he had plenty of his own fun with trolling :) I spoke for myselfe and not for "him". But watching vets vs noobs should be funny also. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
60
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Posted - 2015.10.25 10:55:34 -
[193] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:what a troll is. 1) He must be green |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
60
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Posted - 2015.10.25 11:08:25 -
[194] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:what a troll is. 1) He must be green One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks, with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue. -ó-+-é, -¦-é-+ -+-¦-+-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-+ -+ -ü-+-+-+-¦-é-¦-+-î-+-+ ( -ç-é-+ -å-¦-+-î , -¦-¦-¦ -+-Ç-¦-¦-+-+-+, -¦-ï-é-î -ü-¦-+-+-ü-é-+-Å-é-¦-+-î-+-+-¦ -Ç-¦-+-¦-+-¦-ç-¦-+-+-¦ ) -+-¦-ç-+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-Ç-¦-â-+-¦-+-é -¦ -+-¦-+-¦-Ç-¦, -¦-+-é-+-Ç-¦-Å -¦-é-¦-¦-â-¦-é -¦-Ç-â-¦-+-à -+-¦ -ä-+-Ç-â-+-¦ -¦-¦-+ -¦-¦-¦-+-¦-+--+-+-¦-+ -+-Ç-+-ü-+-â-ê-+-¦-¦-+-+-Å -¦-Ç-¦-â-+-¦-+-é-ï , -+-Ç-¦-¦-+-+-¦-¦-+-+-ï-¦ -ü-¦-+-+-à -ü-¦-¦-Ç-ü-é-+-+-¦-+-¦. -P-+ -¦-ï-+-+-¦-¦-é -é-¦-¦-+-¦ -¦-Ç-¦-â-+-¦-+-é -ç-¦-Ç-¦-+ -+-ü-+-+-+-î-+-+-¦-¦-+-+-¦ -Ç-¦-ü-ü-ç-+-é-¦-+-+-ï-¦ -+-¦ -+-Ç-¦-¦-â-¦-¦-¦-¦-¦-+-+-Å -+-¦-+-¦-¦-¦-+-+-¦ , -¦-¦-+ -¦-¦-ë-¦-ü-é-¦-¦ -+-+-+ relevence , -ç-é-+-¦-ï -+-+-¦-¦-¦-Ç-¦-¦-é-î -+-à , -¦ -é-¦-¦-¦-¦ -ü-+-+-+-+-ï -+-â-¦-ç-+-+-¦ -¦-Ç-¦-â-+-¦-+-é-ï , -¦-+-é-+-Ç-ï-¦ -+-+ -+-ü-+-+-+-î-+-â-¦-é, -ç-é-+-¦-ï -+-Ç-+-ü-é-+ -+-+-¦-¦-¦-¦-é-î -Ç-¦-ê-¦-+-+-Å -ü-â-é-+ -¦-+-+-Ç-+-ü-¦ . If find that strawman part rather fitting for another on here too It was sarcasm See I don't even mention that you need take some Russian lessons |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
60
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Posted - 2015.10.25 13:03:15 -
[195] - Quote
Obsidian Crowe wrote:Please god no. You will make EVE play to win
Good example how this thread turning players into prayers. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.25 16:46:30 -
[196] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i still find it funny how it's "trolling" to disagree with him and point out the flaws in his argument. honestly not sure he understands what a troll is. It would have been great if you really provided any counter arguments ;) Since you just spammed with twisting out, taking things out of context, without even reading all my posts etc etc it is classic trolling. Can I provide arguments instead of Dave? |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
73
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Posted - 2015.10.25 16:56:02 -
[197] - Quote
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.10.25 18:35:53 -
[198] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote: 1. There is massive room for exploitation with this proposal, big alliances with lots of disposable ISK will be able to instantly train up an alt (and do this very effectively up to 50million SP). On reflection the main issue I have with this is that it is INSTANT, that will make it completely overpowered and exploitable for many of the reasons already detailed.
2. The proposal creates the concept of SP farms, and allows veteran players with lots of spare SP or ISK to setup these farms to milk as much ISK as they can out of it. Also this is PASSIVE income which is something that CCP has been trying to remove from the game, and worst off it is passive income with absolutely no effort required to set it up or defend.
3. The proposal will introduce a grind for SP. I have nothing against a small amount of grinding, but the problem with this is that it introduces the prospect of completely UNLIMITED grinding, you can just continually buy more skill packets. This will not be fun in terms of gameplay as you will miss out on a lot of the more niche aspects of eve, things which you pull off with the tools you have available. So instead of being creative and exploring the possibilities in eve and overcoming odds with knowledge and skill, the main option will be to grind more SP to keep up. There will be no excuse now for not being able to fly the doctrine or perfectly fit ships, if you can't then you will be told to go and grind SP and come back later. This in turn makes the game less fun.
1) Alliances with lots of disposable ISK will be able to instantly train up... newbies. It will pushing newbies to be more social what is good for retaintion rate. 2) Let them. They are already feel offended. 3) Grindig was and grinding will be. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
77
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Posted - 2015.10.25 18:48:38 -
[199] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:no, as you're the one calling me a liar the burden of truth is on you. not me. as for my proof, it's in those links. anyone can read the truth there - the facts i presented.
i said there would be a reduced need for alts and this would lead to a decline in subscribed accounts - that statement ignores the fact that people will simply have SP farming accounts instead. however i didn't comment on that as there's no way to quantify whether or not it'll be a net loss or gain.
my business model comment was in the same post. where i merely pointed out the whole industry has shifted to microtransactions. i didn't make any assumptions about what ccp would do. i asked a question, that question being is it time we accepted that CCP moved from subscriptions to micro transactions. if either of us are liars, it would appear to be you. You have agreed to my argument. That is what is written there. Or you are trying to deny you wrote it? Business model comment part (will it switch from subscription to microtransactions) is not even that important as ti might or might not be implemented at some point. And for links I will say what you have lied with pleasure. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103003#post6103003 Fundamentals are being changed. For previous 12 years there was NO way to increase SP to YOUR char by injecting it, or fastening speed of gaining it beside optimizing attributes and using implants, which are both part of the game. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103187#post6103187 People quitting over some issue definitely cause problems. Beside that it was pointed out how this will affect spying, awoxing, corp thieves etc. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103207#post6103207 Please name those many fundamentals being changed over the years https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103367#post6103367 On character bazaar you purchase characters. As the name implies. You do not buy sp which you can inject to your main char, you buy completely different chars.https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103389#post6103389 Same as previous and first posthttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103449#post6103449 But it does. With current mechanics you can get lets say 2700 sp per hour with optimized attributes and implants. With the new system you can do that + as much you decide to pay. Ie with old system for 100 hours you could get 270k sp, with new one you can get 5mil or whatever you can afford.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103467#post6103467
As it is stated in the devblog, it favors younger players. Works for everyone but favors young ones.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103502#post6103502
As already explained, you cannot have 300-400 mil sp character now as you are not able to inject sp to existing ones. After the changes that will be affordable for some and that is altering game mechanic since other way it would not be doable before 2020 or so.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103536#post6103536
[b] You cannot go around and buy prestige of top sp players. Simply because their characters are not for sale. And therefore you cannot claim that prestige. I am sure Dr Caymus would not sell his char for all isk in eve. How would you acquire it then?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103624#post6103624
[b] I have already drawn you: Not really. I do not think he is among 1k of characters that were made of start. Consider there were no skill queue back then, there was no evemon, there was no remap. So it took him years of careful planning of schedule, best attributes usage, changing them on time and in the end paying the subscription to be where he is. His dedication is the reason he is top 1. And if CCP sends message that dedication aint mean anything and you can be #1 in something if you pay up, I think its the wrong message.Looking forward your twisting these out, digressing, trying to manipulate them, avoiding them or whatever Wow you took it seriously |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.25 19:14:58 -
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Don ZOLA wrote: 1. I am sure alliances will push a lot of isk in new players which they do not know, have no trust in and see no reason to invest in as they are noobs regardless of sp (most is) 2. Not sure that i got this, you are commenting on farms and that does not seem to be related to that 3. Pushing more people in more grinding stops them from creating / participating in content :)
1) Trust is important thing which need to be desreved. I don't think either that alliances will willing to invest in completly strangers but it defently encourge newbies to be sociable. 2) I talked about vets benefits. More benefits for vets -> less concers about new system from them. 3) Content is very blurred word. I could say that being victim while grinding is content also =) |
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Posted - 2015.10.25 20:09:43 -
[201] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:1. To develop trust it takes time. And while they develop that trust they might not be noobs anymore :) Though they still might be on the level to find a boost useful, but already in segment of diminishing returns. Not sure how many corps/alliances would be ready for such investments. 2. Somehow it seemed to me that his 2nd concern was about farms? :D 3. Agreed to certain point. But if hunters are grinding as well, there is no one to make them victims You are nice man to talk to =)
1) If they seeking for advantange over another allince than they might do that even with newcomers. Logistics are helpful even if they are noobs. Might is key word. We can't know for sure not me, not you in what point they are will willing to invest. 2) Yeap and it's strange. "Look I can earn money, stop me somebody from doing that" 3) PvE fits are more effective in grinding and less relevant in PvP. So it force you to choose between safety and greed. Hunter will choose PvP fit when he want to setup a trap. Then hunter become hunted =) Mobile depot is also a choice. So it could be fun |
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Posted - 2015.10.25 20:29:58 -
[202] - Quote
Rek Seven has great signature about "content" word
Quote:Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks |
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Posted - 2015.10.26 09:23:07 -
[203] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:If SP will become a commodity you are making access to them unequal. I must pay more to "fly geddon instead of ceptor". Why? It has nothing to do with "more control of my character". Or you could not pay anything and train as normal. Nothing about the training to fly a geddon vs a ceptor is changing and there is no mandate to use the feature to progress. SP will still be generated by players equally as well. Game rules should be equal for everybody. Imagine rookies gets only queens instead of every other and pieces on chess board. Why? Because they are rookies? If I want to change from geddon to ceptor I must pay more (currency is meaningless here) to do this than new player. An option is created with unequal access to it. What next? Players to 1 year will have discount on subs, while I'll be paying twice? Thats! That is sound like personal reason which I wanted to heard for a while. Don't worry, we won't hurt.
In this thread we talked A LOT how vet could benefit from new system and you have been here for a while. And yet still you feel jealous about? |
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Posted - 2015.10.26 09:59:27 -
[204] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:General Lootit wrote:In this thread we talked A LOT how vet could benefit from new system and you have been here for a while. And yet still you feel jealous about? Righhht, because character that has >50 mil SP must pay more to switch doctrines than <50 mil SP, benefit ... SPs will be commodity. Are you ranting that being high SP is tough thing? OK. I repeat once again Could I have your SP? And then maybe I grow up... I can't promise. |
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Posted - 2015.10.26 11:09:25 -
[205] - Quote
Natascha Kerenski wrote: Why should people who played the game for years be punished for being patient and making their progress over time. Just do the same diminishing rate for everyone!
Dev blog Why have diminishing returns at all? We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. How it's punishing you? Blowing noobs on shiny ships should be funny and profitable at the same time. expirence>skill points
Natascha Kerenski wrote: This is mostly created because there are a lot of players today with the attitude: I want everything NOOOOOOW!!! And if i dont get it ill rage quit imediatly and kick that stupid game from my hard drive
Yeeeeaaaaah! We are noobs loving do things like that.
Vahligmarr wrote:I just cancelled my account. You can leave a message why you quit in the process. I did.
Jeremiah Saken wrote: I don't know if I want to be part of it when that happens.
Daniela Doran wrote: I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.26 13:09:50 -
[206] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:It makes perfect sense. (Hint: allowing you to efficiently overtake significantly longer trained characters doesn't leave them with much prestige for their tenure, does it). What a twisted logic. It will be more efficient to strip 100 mil char into 3. Reallocating skllls on high level chars will be inefficent. What will be best to do to is strip them and make specialise alts. Where's the presitge of that? If "prestige" has meaning how many time you invested in your character then I see the only way - count months of subscription. |
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Posted - 2015.10.26 18:18:58 -
[207] - Quote
Etara Silverblade wrote:It looks like CCP has long since stopped checking this thread so we're probably just talking to ourselves. I don't think the CSM is reading it anymore either.
From reading the posts it seems like people are in 2 camps, those that think this feature will ruin the game and those that don't see what the big deal is. It doesn't seem like anyone really wants this feature because we all know it will just get abused to no end and time in game will no longer mean anything.
It was smart. 2 groups... only Twisting facts not gonna work. There is a bunch of people who want that change. Too bad if you want to mislead people by false facts on purpose. |
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:18:42 -
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Suede wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside. Please also read this reminder on our forum rules ~ ISD Decoy Why not let players move there SP to other skills, saying i have Amarr Battleships at level 5 and Caldari Battleship at level 1, and today i would like to fly my Raven so then i move the SP from Amarr Battleship knowing it is level 5 and place that SP into Caldari Battleship to make that level 5 where amarr Battleship will be level 1, tomorrow might want to swap again, this could be used for other skills, it would help a lot of people out, or make it so can move the SP back in to your Unallcated Skills Points, Because people already whining that consequences doesn't matter anymore. #1 #2 Please don't get it worse. |
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:38:00 -
[209] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:That's not twisted logic at all, just you thinking there's no value in having far greater SP, which itself is pretty twisted logic. Not mine, CCPs. It the oppopssite to what they trying to do, if I can't reallocate my SPs at high level of them then Quote:By putting more control of your characters in your hands we hope to improve the game for everyone. is bull****. It's not for everyone, for low SPs players only. I'm feel sorry for you. |
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Posted - 2015.10.27 09:18:24 -
[210] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:General Lootit wrote:Etara Silverblade wrote:It looks like CCP has long since stopped checking this thread so we're probably just talking to ourselves. I don't think the CSM is reading it anymore either.
From reading the posts it seems like people are in 2 camps, those that think this feature will ruin the game and those that don't see what the big deal is. It doesn't seem like anyone really wants this feature because we all know it will just get abused to no end and time in game will no longer mean anything.
It was smart but not enough. Twisting facts not gonna work. There is a bunch of people who want that change. Too bad if you want to mislead people by false facts on purpose. Where is there arguments for what this will solve? The main thrust of their arguments seem to be that we already have the bazaar, so in essence they are arguing that there will be no change. Thats not my words. So I feel free to disagree with them. SP traiding is better because it will allow me to keep my indentity and spend money(isk in my case) in more consistent way.
Malice Redeemer wrote:it will make spying even more trivial than it is already About spying
Malice Redeemer wrote: it will make the most powerful more powerful
What a conspiracy... |
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Posted - 2015.10.27 12:04:43 -
[211] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Suede wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside. Please also read this reminder on our forum rules ~ ISD Decoy Why not let players move there SP to other skills, saying i have Amarr Battleships at level 5 and Caldari Battleship at level 1, and today i would like to fly my Raven so then i move the SP from Amarr Battleship knowing it is level 5 and place that SP into Caldari Battleship to make that level 5 where amarr Battleship will be level 1, tomorrow might want to swap again, this could be used for other skills, it would help a lot of people out, or make it so can move the SP back in to your Unallcated Skills Points, Because people already whining that consequences doesn't matter anymore. #1 #2 Please don't get it worse. You know the 2 posts that you highlighted as examples that in game consequences don't matter are actually saying they do matter. Im not trying to twist your words or anything, just makes me wonder if something gets lost in translation. won't matter... are you happy now?
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Posted - 2015.10.27 17:19:58 -
[212] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Lets see if someone will actually respond Let me.
Levi Belvar wrote: be abused by anyone in game Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused.
Sweet dreams are made of this Who am I to disagree? |
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Posted - 2015.10.27 17:34:40 -
[213] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Can I patent the phrase' Can I haz your stuff? And your brain?' I think it could be a good earner... vain laugh |
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Posted - 2015.10.27 20:03:42 -
[214] - Quote
CCPlease don't force me to call my ship "Serenity" and wearing browncoat. |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 12:29:56 -
[215] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:General Lootit wrote: What a conspiracy...
So you are saying this won't help the largest corporations recruit more members? I'm saying that it will helps noobs to socialize also. Are you so afraid a bunch of noobs? |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 13:11:25 -
[216] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: I dont care about anyone else, nobodies gonna tell me how to play my game I dont care about noobs, more of them for me to shoot Is only bothered about what he gets out of the game Only bothered about funding his gameplay for free.
*Strawman* buddy Please don't speak for me. |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 14:34:11 -
[217] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:These people speaking Come on!
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Posted - 2015.10.28 16:45:36 -
[218] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: There are a few people here who think they should have access to everything in game without effort
Really? Who are they? |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 17:32:45 -
[219] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Just make players pay more, and there are players who are willing to pay more. It's all about the price. Any money to keep a crown. |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 18:38:44 -
[220] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:General Lootit wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Just make players pay more, and there are players who are willing to pay more. It's all about the price. Any money to keep a crown. You DO realise that magically adding skill points isn't somehow magically going to transform your hilarious clown losses and lol fits (which show zero understanding on the game) and turn them into wins, right? I need them for PvE. I'm just wonder how experienced player afraid of "catching up" noobs. |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 18:56:07 -
[221] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:General Lootit wrote:I need them for PvE. I'm just wonder how experienced player afraid of "catching up" noobs. Experienced players don't afraid catching up noobs, experienced players afraid this feature will change EvE into just common microtransaction MMO, just like there are so many others on the market.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Game rules should be equal for everybody. Imagine rookies gets only queens instead of every other and pieces on chess board. Why? Because they are rookies? If I want to change from geddon to ceptor I must pay more (currency is meaningless here) to do this than new player. An option is created with unequal access to it. What next? Players to 1 year will have discount on subs, while I'll be paying twice?
Jeremiah Saken wrote:is bull****. It's not for everyone, for low SPs players only. Word isn't a bird. Did you knew that? Song lied to you |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:08:12 -
[222] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:General Lootit wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:General Lootit wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Just make players pay more, and there are players who are willing to pay more. It's all about the price. Any money to keep a crown. You DO realise that magically adding skill points isn't somehow magically going to transform your hilarious clown losses and lol fits (which show zero understanding on the game) and turn them into wins, right? I need them for PvE. I'm just wonder how experienced player afraid of "catching up" noobs. We're not because SP isn't that important. that's the whole fcking point of this whole discussion. Clueless clowns asking for something they don't understand, in a game they don't understand, expecting that it'll help them because being max lvl and full of purplez helped them so much in WOW. We're not going to have uninformed noobs, like you, dictate that this game should change to a mindset you're so used to in other games. Here's a top tip: if you can't grasp how EVE works, which in and of itself is fine as a newbie, then either you accept that and try to learn or you just accept that it's not to your liking and fck off to some MMO that is more in line with what the average clown looks for. People who have no understanding on a subject should probably stay away from discussing it. Sorry but I have no PhD in MMO subject. Dror did. |
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Posted - 2015.10.28 20:40:06 -
[223] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:General Lootit wrote: Word isn't a bird. Did you knew that? Song lied to you
You must stop writing words, so many quotes, you don't understand it still. If you see how some noob catching you up - don't worry it's just a bad dream. |
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Posted - 2015.10.29 12:38:00 -
[224] - Quote
I'm so mad at you CCP! They just canceled out. All of you, are you happy&!
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.29 17:08:02 -
[225] - Quote
What happening? You was wrong?!
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.29 21:58:42 -
[226] - Quote
Rammix wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:Mag's wrote:CCP Terminus wrote: Which is why we're taking extra care with this feature. In this case the dev blog came out before any implementation.
Ahh so a PR exercise, but it's still a done deal? Nice. Daniela Doran wrote:Yes I also really like to know if this is a done deal? The $144.00 usd I'm putting into Eve every month hinges on this decision. If it was a done deal we'd have put the dev blog out when it was going to be shipped. The whole point of the dev blog is to gather feedback and assess. Still, it looks like you're not going to completely cancel it unless you're forced to through some scandal. We need a civil war between those who want to use transplants and those who wont/forbid to use them.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.29 22:55:36 -
[227] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:General Lootit wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:General Lootit wrote: What a conspiracy...
So you are saying this won't help the largest corporations recruit more members? I'm saying that it will helps noobs to socialize also. I'm sorry, I guess I didn't know there was a teamspeak skill you needed to have at 5. My bad. I talk to a couple of brand newbies every day. This isn't about socializing, it is about one more thing the largest corps will be able to afford to throw at there new members. Small corps will not be able to afford that, especially corps that recruit from in the game, and have to worry about getting take advantage of. Small corps could afford close relationships -> more loyal members. Not rich - be funny.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.30 09:20:06 -
[228] - Quote
Vets, did you just found easy target?
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.30 10:21:49 -
[229] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: Yea and then they quit when they realize they can't afford to pay for a second house note.
Daniela Doran wrote:The $144.00 usd I'm putting into Eve every month hinges on this decision.
Daniela Doran wrote:I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you. Hah?!
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.30 10:29:44 -
[230] - Quote
Jadon Wallace wrote:Zerg Xander wrote:I love this idea! I am a new player who recently resubbed after quitting after only a couple months. This might actually keep me in the game. When I look at how long I will have to train to be viable in pvp it seems hopeless. If I try to pve I get insulted or ganked. The biggest problem this game has is its community. Everyone says they want to help noobs but you call us Care Bears gank us while mining or steal our stuff in missions. It seems like the only reason the older players want newer players is to kill them most older players who act like they are good at this game only take fights with weaker players. The old guard needs to be shaken up in this game. Most of the map is empty because coalitions control 100x more space then they need. Why would any new player stay in this game if they know that no matter how hard they work they will never be able to compete with a 5 year character.
I think this could actually draw new players Interesting reply, I would like to know what you mean by being 'viable in PVP' and never being able 'to compete with a 5 year character'. SP is important but I feel it's a strong psychological factor rather than a barrier to entry in most cases, for example for a new character it's easy to get into a e-war frigate or even a electronic attack ship, both of which are very valuable and incredibly annoying on the field. Frigates in general are easy low entry and really newbies should start from the bottom and work there way up in competence, goes hand in hand with the time it takes to train to the next thing as well, it's not I can fly a Battleship therefore nothing under that can compete or kill me, EVE is a game of rock, paper, shotgun. People won't play fair, learn, play smart and work your way to where you want to be. You might want to read this post.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.30 18:40:38 -
[231] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:My friend just text me about this. I'm livid!
You are going to offer the low skilled players a chance to boost their skill points significantly. I've had to train my account for just over 2 years to get 40 million skill points. A task that has cost me around -ú240 to do. Now you are saying to the beginners that they can grind a tonne of ISK on an alt account & use it to just BUY their skill points? Why would you punish me like that? If you go through with this, I would hope that you offer me to sell my points back to Eve Online for real life money at a rate of -ú10 a month (like you charge me), then I will just grind the ISK in game & buy all my skill points using ISK instead of paying the -ú240 I've spet on my account. I doubt you will offer me this chance, so I'm well annoyed. Let me know ASAP on if this will be in the patch because I won't be paying for a subscription anymore. I'll simply just grind the ISK and buy my skill points.
Any what about PVP fights now? Where possible I've tried to guess my opponents skill points by looking at their DOB. I would no longer be able to do that anymore?
Big corps who have trillions could just buy a 1day old toon and buy it 50 mill SP. So I could lose to a 1day old toon. What a joke man. Seriously.
Final thoughts: What a joke! Not happy! See while I think selling SPs is a bad idea, the reasons you gave just play into the hands of the "pro selling SPs" camp because they sound like self entitled vet whine. Now you talking like a real politic.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 09:10:11 -
[232] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Thieves of the air, will steal the food right off your plate.
We could and will do.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 09:39:10 -
[233] - Quote
Erasmus Grant wrote:CCP would be better off selling Neural Remaps and name changes for characters. We already had this convesation.
Dev blog
Quote:We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 10:12:12 -
[234] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Dev blog Quote:We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point. That translated means : Players would be able to customize there characters with very little profit for us so thats not going to happen. You broke the translator.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 10:33:39 -
[235] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 14:13:20 -
[236] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: There's no fallacy in my statement in what ever context you want to try to look at it,
Too bad for you. So you might be a fraud because of it.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 16:19:36 -
[237] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dror wrote:You're arguing semantics. The point stands that a low-SP character would probably lose to that which has the best ammo selection and module effectiveness. We can discuss how that's completely awful for fresh subs, so much that they would probably quit (and for very specific, inherent, psychological reasons) because there's aplenty of resources on the topic. Its not semantics, theyre 2 completely different things.Apart from you in this thread have you seen anyone offering support to your basic destruction of EvE, NO . If you have that sort of grievance take it up in the appropriate place not here, also i have no problem with them removing attribs from the game and setting all in game learning skills so that it improves the speed at whatever level it would be e.g. you wouldnt see them anymore but you have the equivalent base to all being set at 30 then the boost implants giving them another boost - That is not skillpoints though which is YOUR demon. Whatever affects the PCU, fresh sub interest, and the amount and intensity of content is a game problem. There seems to be no counter-argument for that. This info was from a MMOData dump in august 2013: World of Warcraft is taking its second nosedive after a small recovery around oktober 2012. Landing at around 7,7 million subs. Still the biggest MMORPG out there, but at this rate EVE Online may overtake WoW in a couple of years :p Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game. CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago. At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world. If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee. The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ). This doesnt indicate a problem with Skillpoints but from an action that was taken to alter the game / perception of players. This needs to be remedied not total destruction derby. My word would be last.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.10.31 18:04:58 -
[238] - Quote
A Ingus wrote:Up to now this game has been about time and effort and a sense of achievement. Time and effort value will be still present in the game. But I also will have an option to trade my effort(active playing time) to SP. Could you call it instant gratification?
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Posted - 2015.10.31 18:21:43 -
[239] - Quote
A Ingus wrote:General Lootit wrote:A Ingus wrote:Up to now this game has been about time and effort and a sense of achievement. Time and effort value will be still present in the game. But I also will have an option to trade my effort(active playing time) to SP. Could you call it instant gratification? You are only thinking about yourself. And yes I would call it so, for the buyer. Yeap, I'm defending my position as you doing it. What buyers? Those who earned his money by working, those who paying for ability to buy PLEX with isk and those who paying CCP for their work?
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 18:38:38 -
[240] - Quote
A Ingus wrote:I am not even sure what you are trying to say? Oh, maybe you are making some flippant remark about people who can afford or choose to pay rl cash for sp in a computer game being somehow better workers than others who cannot or will not. My bad. My point is those who paying with rl cash also make effort to earn money. It's beneficial for CCP and players who buying PLEX with isk.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.10.31 20:34:30 -
[241] - Quote
Vollhov wrote:Golden PLEX.Further brains (SP) for Golden. Chucks for Golden. Ships for Golden. a c up b up b a down
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.11.01 00:39:46 -
[242] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote: Where-¦s my beer!?
Have a nice time man
Jared Khanar wrote: Or something like: In a world in which the gap between rich and poor is widening everyday, where there are fewer and fewer riches and more and more poor, does it make sense to choose the minority as a target group?
I grinded on plex and I know that plex was payed by someone else. Maybe he's poor, maybe rich. I don't really know but I hope he get some fun with my isks.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.01 11:06:46 -
[243] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:So, still no dev replies for days now. The only concern that was replied to is the issue of prestige which imho is a non issue.
They go quiet while they judge whether they can afford to ignore the player-base. Judgment day is coming. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked and behold, a pale horse, and it's name it said on him was UAxDEATH, and Hell followed with him.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.01 15:50:57 -
[244] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Amanda Orion wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:So, still no dev replies for days now. The only concern that was replied to is the issue of prestige which imho is a non issue.
They go quiet while they judge whether they can afford to ignore the player-base. Judgment day is coming. And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: one of the four beasts saying: " Come and see." And I saw. And behold, a white horse. ... And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked and behold, a pale horse, and it's name it said on him was UAxDEATH, and Hell followed with him. Just for you General Lootit Image !!! Thats was funny. Good boy.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.01 16:50:07 -
[245] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: You're wasting your time trying to debate with that teenage troll.
I'm just a loner baby...
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.01 22:00:10 -
[246] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:General Lootit wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: Thieves of the air, will steal the food right off your plate.
We could and will do. And you wonder why people call you the worst troll on EveO. Because you only second worst troll after me?
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.02 11:17:52 -
[247] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: After you've piled up over 100 mill SP within a year and flown all the ships you wanted to fly in Eve, you'll get bored of Eve and then you'll leave Eve forever.
You can't get bored after several months of waiting tengu obviously.
Daniela Doran wrote:you'll leave Eve forever Only after you.
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you.
the door's got a closer on it, don't let it hit you on the way out.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.02 12:18:18 -
[248] - Quote
A Ingus wrote: Ive found after many years of playing this game and reading the forums, that
Today I learned new word and I'm happy to share it with you. Juvenoia
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Posted - 2015.11.02 13:47:31 -
[249] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote:has been mentioned here before:
- remove skill prequesites disabling you to use something entirely - rework the skill system a bit so higher skills gives "only" bonuses - everyone could do everything he / she likes more or less efficient depending on the skills
everyone would be able to take a closer look at what they want to play and skill directly into it to get better
no need for charging rl money to allow a faster progression
problem solved?
I doubt that ships will be able to execute their purpose without training in system which you described. And you make CCP feel sad.
Jared Khanar wrote: Is the sp system good or bad now !?
Just ugly.
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Posted - 2015.11.02 20:18:46 -
[250] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:ISD Decoy wrote:I have removed some troll replies and those quoting them. Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. I don't know... Looks like the last 100 pages are still full of trolls. Hell, this dev blog feels like a troll post. I had to double check it's not April first. :) They were my posts
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Posted - 2015.11.03 23:06:10 -
[251] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: They are. We are speaking about fundamentals here, not some minor changes which are liked or not liked by someone. Changing fundamentals can easily lead your customers to ask themselves if it is worth to invest time and money in something which might be something else in a year or five. How will that affect current player base we will see, but judging from responses here and ingame there will be a lot of unhappy customers...
I'm quite embarrassed about the fact that this is most popular topic on eve-o. It's not what newcomer expecting to see after reading news about new feature like this. BTW I asked in russian thread "Guys, what are your favorite patchs? " And you know what? None for a long time. I went to conclusion that there is no such thing for vet which called "good patch", every changing is bad. And I think reasons for that behavior not in the game but in psychology of human being. Term which explains this phenomenon is juvenoia.
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Posted - 2015.11.04 19:22:43 -
[252] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: And patch bringing this will be different from others since game fundamental is going to be changed. So it is not just if someone likes ship, pos, missions, whatever changes. This is the biggest change ever as it is change in CCP`s relations to its customers.
Yeap, it's crucial changing. Like inventing prostetic limbs(remeber your sports metaphor about pretige)... Is it right thing to disqualify person from challenge who suffered from loosing limb but now he has prostetic one?
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.04 21:14:53 -
[253] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote: it might not be. my oldest is 7 years old and it would run 100% efficiency.
Good for you.
Lady Rift wrote: but the inefficient of over 80mil sp doesnt isnt the point it just cost more.
Mmmmm... efficient - utilizing a particular commodity or product with the least waste of resources or effort.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:48:00 -
[254] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: the ISK rich can pay to win just like the RL rich
I have 2 questions: 1) What is "win" mean? 2) Why you so much hate rich people?
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Posted - 2015.11.05 00:13:09 -
[255] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:
(1) I'm not getting into the definition of pay to win - lets say - yet another & more obvious method of using RL money to gain an advantage in the game.
Lets say there is no particular defenition of "win", hence there is no pay2win.
Iowa Banshee wrote: (2) You were the one who was concerned that paying with aurum would ""dienfranchise all the players who can't afford it in rl" just pointing out it disenfranchises ones that cannot afford it with ISK in eve as well
That isn't my concern. I just asked you question. So you worry about disenfranchising. But yet still nothing specific.
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 12:02:08 -
[256] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:They'll never catch up, they will hit the wall at 50 mil SP. Homo walleticus don't use brain for thinking. More money for CCP? In game that has subscription? It's either, multitransactions or subscription, not both. adding fuel to the fire: The Benefits of a Skillpoint Economycomparing League or World of Tanks to EvE? Milions of players to 30k average on one server? This will end well... According to 5 stages of loss you are on 4-th stage.
Denial
Jeremiah Saken wrote: Really CCP?
Anger
Jeremiah Saken wrote: is bull****. It's not for everyone, for low SPs players only.
Bargaining
Jeremiah Saken wrote: Just make players pay more, and there are players who are willing to pay more. It's all about the price.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:24:29 -
[257] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Doddy wrote: I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?
No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers. Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't. Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:39:34 -
[258] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:General Lootit wrote:Portmanteau wrote:Doddy wrote: I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?
No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers. Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't. Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies. Is this post a joke ? Depends on how you perceive it. For me it's not a joke exept part of "you know".
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:46:38 -
[259] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote: as hes that old i assume he knows alot of the problems of newbies.
What are concerns of grandma about you? Does she know about that you against new change in EVE?
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 14:33:53 -
[260] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Portmanteau wrote:General Lootit wrote:Portmanteau wrote:Doddy wrote: I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?
No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers. Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't. Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies. Is this post a joke ? You do have to forgive the resident troll with his less than intelligent statements, He thinks that everyone above 50 mill skillpoints was granted them from the jovian's ........ Only the new batch of new players have it harsh Actually I think that someone here talking too much for others.
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Posted - 2015.11.05 17:37:12 -
[261] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote: They(new players) will just shake their heads about the greed of the developer without ever understanding the background of the system and simply quit.
Just for example
Daniela Doran wrote: I see, so it's the money CCP is making from Character Bazaar that's spawned this greed.
Daniela Doran wrote: I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you.
Newbie since 2013-03-04
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 18:45:31 -
[262] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote: And patch bringing this will be different from others since game fundamental is going to be changed. So it is not just if someone likes ship, pos, missions, whatever changes. This is the biggest change ever as it is change in CCP`s relations to its customers.
Yeap, it's crucial changing. Like inventing prostetic limbs(remember your sports metaphor about prestige)... Is it right thing to disqualify person from challenge who suffered from loosing limb but now he has prostetic one? Totally wrong analogy since people with prosthetic limbs are not allowed to compete in regular competitions, they have their own. So it is obviously right.
Don ZOLA wrote: That is like saying that in any competition there will be the 1st place for the ones who used doping and separate 1st place for those who did not.
They did it but for people with prosthetic limbs.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 19:05:40 -
[263] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:
You are suggesting CCP should have separate server for those who want this new feature and other which speed up their development? Could not agree more :)
We talking about prestige, right? Just let them to separate regular SP from injected.
CCP Terminus wrote: there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 22:49:23 -
[264] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Doddy wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"
I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's
It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats "Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions
Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way. So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one. You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy. If its so flawed explain the following Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game. CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago. At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world. If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee. The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ). Data compiled aug 2013. Are you Droring now? Is it contagious?
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 23:08:30 -
[265] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Stop making convenient and untrue generalizations about the motivations of those who disagree with you. It's new fashion. Ask Levi about it.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 23:42:44 -
[266] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Doddy wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Doddy wrote:You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.
You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ?? That is the whole point ffs. If it doesn't matter, why is protecting peoples bought sp advantage so important to you? is it just spite? The same reason i asked you, for what reason is there a need for catchup. why do you need to catch a 12 year old character up when you can be very effective within 1 month. One beard joke: Space tomato vet blowing up newbie tomato and saying "Ketchup"
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.05 23:58:41 -
[267] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: go back to time
How far?
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Posted - 2015.11.06 00:12:47 -
[268] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: go back to time
How far? misquoted He meant go back to a gameplay where time and effort bring a reward. I am not sure what the effort is in waiting for skill-points to generate, but that's what he was talking about. To say that that skill packs are instant gratification is really inaccurate. EvE players are not learning skills just so they can say they have 'xxx' amount of points, they want to fly ships and use them in space against other objects controlled by player/NPC. Gratification comes from succeeding in those activities, have nothing to do with skill point generation. Don't worry I'm just a worst troll on eve-o =)
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Posted - 2015.11.06 00:53:34 -
[269] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.
Give it a rest pal. Painting everyone who disagrees with your opinion as some sort of 'p2w collaborator' is cheap and can just as cheaply turned around to suit the opposite argument. Everyone who wants tsps just wants to exploit it for their own gain and doesn't care about new players at all. These banal kind of arguments are a waste of everybody's time. OK. What is your personal reason against this idea? How it will hurt you? I don't trust someone who covering up personal reason by some sort of kindness and carrying for noobs. Especially if he is vet.
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:23:34 -
[270] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:
You are suggesting CCP should have separate server for those who want this new feature and other which speed up their development? Could not agree more :)
We talking about prestige, right? Just let them to separate regular SP from injected one. CCP Terminus wrote: there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints.
Prestige is just one of concerns. And about solution for it - I prefer idea of separate servers. Or injected SP not being counted in total SP. :) You beat me. I thought that I'm troll here =)... Wait. I have better idea. How about forbid TSP for those who won't to use them. And let other use.
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:41:02 -
[271] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -
but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that. Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways. Soon you will be able throw in a few plexes - and - wow an instant incursion toon Did you thought about where plexes go? Thanks to this man because he paid for someone who can't afford PLEX with rl money.
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Posted - 2015.11.06 14:39:17 -
[272] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:I come to have a fun and a laugh
Yeah, I see how you get fun by not playing.
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Posted - 2015.11.06 16:05:49 -
[273] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Difference is that I am not trolling, just giving more in depth to your suggestions.
Yeap, me too. I'm doing it all the time.
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:27:42 -
[274] - Quote
Doddy wrote: So what exactly were you trying to say?
Levi can I speak for you like you did it? Thanks.
So he want to say that you are wrong, no matter what you said. He love to argue with somebody. And don't really matter if he contradict with himselfe. If he see that he was wrong than he get it personal. Beware even Dror gave up on him.
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Posted - 2015.11.06 19:37:02 -
[275] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: - Agreed - The system as it stands only gives a 0.025% increase to a Vets skils and as such is no use to them -- why do you keep saying its what vets want
Iowa Banshee wrote:-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies Why do you asking? We all know that socratic method is very powerful tool for argueing but please use it properly.
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.06 20:31:12 -
[276] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling
True.
Iowa Banshee wrote: Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%
I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.06 20:40:12 -
[277] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote: just giving more in depth to your suggestions.
Yeap, me too. I'm doing it all the time. In start you actually tried, but after few pages you went to trolling mode...
Quote:You see, madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push! Don't push me with absurd statements like separating servers and I will be fine.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.06 20:57:37 -
[278] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: You made analogy for that, between sportsman who compete regularly and sportsman with prosthetics and their own competitions.
Yes, but I defenetly didn't suggest to separate servers, just API stats.
General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:
You are suggesting CCP should have separate server for those who want this new feature and other which speed up their development? Could not agree more :)
We talking about prestige, right? Just let them to separate regular SP from injected one. CCP Terminus wrote: there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints.
Pinky Bear
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Posted - 2015.11.06 21:15:06 -
[279] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:General Lootit wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote: I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling
True. Iowa Banshee wrote: Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%
I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them. For the long list of reasons found in this thread I am against selling/transferring/destroying SP - I believe that SP is and has always been tied to the CCP subscription financial model. That being said - I think a re-mapping-SP tool made like the re-sculpture item satisfies all the needs of people wanting to reassign SP Boosters to increase your learning rate still give you the wanted extra SP and satisfies people who object because of the Subscription/Time/SP model ( Diminishing returns for higher SP players) I don't think there is anything mentioned in this thread that cannot be addressed with these 2 items I can tell you that it won't help me much because I have low SP(because I'm noob) and relocating won't speed up progress at my plan. Furthermore there is a group of people who talked that consequences of skill choises won't be matter anymore if TSP will be implemented. So you get it worse with re-mapping-SP tool.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.06 21:28:13 -
[280] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Let me refresh your memory. You have implied that all sportsman, regardless of handicap compete / should compete together. Which is not true as they have their own separated competitions.
Nope, I just asked you
Quote: Is it right thing to disqualify person from challenge who suffered from loosing limb but now he has prostetic one? Anyway my point is they should have separate top tables(API stats) thats all.
Don ZOLA wrote: edit: So with that analogy, we should have separate servers :)
Hulk Smash!
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.06 22:17:20 -
[281] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:
P.S. Funny thing is that outsiders(disabled people) terrifying regular sportsmans because sportsmans could be outcompeted by disabled one. Disabled is not so disabled ...
But they are disqualified. That was my point :) Regarding API, as I said it could be done that injected SP does not calculate in total SP. Still that would cover only one of the concerns, more important ones are still there.
Don ZOLA wrote:You do not have to invalidate them. Maybe you will come up with one counter argument which would make me change a part of my opinion. You have too many concerns maybe because you are on wrong side or maybe because you looking too deep into depth and found no light for yourselfe.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.06 23:47:49 -
[282] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: But they are disqualified. That was my point :)
You should to watch
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.07 12:55:59 -
[283] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: There are so many ways you could improve the game to make it new player friendly .
You are so friendly and kind person that I can't express my feelings...
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.08 16:35:40 -
[284] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Thanks for proving that you are nothing but the troll.
If I was nothing but a troll than all my posts were be erased. I could understand why you angry at me. By same reason why you ignoring that post
General Lootit wrote:Don ZOLA wrote: But they are disqualified. That was my point :)
You should to watch Or/and because of this post Discrediting source. Petty smart but I already admited that some my posts were erased and yet still you talked to me. Your behavior is the way to excuse yourself.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.08 21:22:53 -
[285] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:And even that Olympic games were exception. You saying "exception". I'm saying that was a precedent.
Don ZOLA wrote:with your analogy everyone would have to have equal number of sp in order to not be "behind" anyone else. "just giving more in depth to your suggestions"? Do you know what does it mean reductio ad absurdum? Someone on your side thinks that it is bad practic.
Don ZOLA wrote:I could prove you are wrong again.
Yea, I rember that case...
General Lootit wrote: You are nice man to talk with =)
I'm feel really sorry for misleading you.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.08 21:40:20 -
[286] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: I am indeed nice, until I think you are a troll or something similar ;)
I already heard it somewhere. You can't be a second Hulk.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.15 00:37:40 -
[287] - Quote
Tau Phoenix wrote: Skillpoint for Cash = Pay to Win ... CCP : The real currency in Eve is time. Time is what makes Skillpoints, time is what makes isk, time is our investment. Please don't ruin this game by devalueing our investment.
Wait 2 win.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.15 01:43:06 -
[288] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Plex isn't going to effect the extractor Plex will effect price of extactor because people want to maximize their isk/$ rate. So they will choose between PLEX and extractor, hence PLEX and extractor will be collarated things. For example if extractor will cost 1/12 of PLEX in $ than it will cost same 1/12 in isk.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.15 15:27:45 -
[289] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote: Let-¦s skip the features designed for the pay and waiting part and head to / develop the good things instead.
I'm fine with skill trading system.
Jared Khanar wrote: All of us are already paying to do be able to do / play ;)
Not all. Because of it some people don't mind if another person sell extra plex on the market.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.15 19:40:39 -
[290] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: A character 'REMAP SP' item from the store - in case you want to turn those mining SP into Combat SP
1 post earlier
Tau Phoenix wrote: Well, if you made a decision to train a skill at some oint then you made that decision and it should not be able to be undone.
Pinky Bear
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.15 22:08:33 -
[291] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:-Ü-é-+--é-+ -¦-¦-¦-î -¦-+-+-¦-¦-+ -+-+-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î, -ç-é-+ -+-+-¦-¦-¦-â -+-¦-+-î-+-Å -¦-â-+-+-é-î. -ÿ -+-â-ü-é-î -ì-é-+ -¦-â-¦-¦-é EVE.
Translated
Somebody has to show that victory can not be bought, And let it be EVE.
Good man, couldn't of said it better myself !!! Follow me and I will reveal you the truth!
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.16 15:29:01 -
[292] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote: Diminishing returns is a bad idea, because it says a big F you to your most loyal customers.
Mom why little brother has better toys?! |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.16 15:44:49 -
[293] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: You can't just take one small piece of the argument that benefits you and argue it.
You can't just invent many reasons with intention to proof this change is bad for entire GAME because it's not benefitial for you. Wait... You can. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.16 16:19:07 -
[294] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote: Your well reasoned intellectual argument has fully explored the commercial implications of showing long standing loyal customers that they are considered less important than new customers, or even possibly expendable.
Thank you so much.
Very loyal
Vahligmarr wrote:I just cancelled my account. You can leave a message why you quit in the process. I did.
Jeremiah Saken wrote: I don't know if I want to be part of it when that happens.
Daniela Doran wrote: I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you. For really long standing loyal players spring will show a bunch of new things. |
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Posted - 2015.11.16 17:37:25 -
[295] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: If real money is involved it just devalues the whole game. Confirmed. Plexes devalues the whole game. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.16 19:58:00 -
[296] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Except its not truth, there is far more against this idea but couple of spammers made it look like its 50-50 in the pro and con posts.
Levi he call you a spammer and you liked it?
Don ZOLA wrote:I do not read reddit so I do not know. It explains why do you think that way. Maybe you need to start read it right now and proof that I was wrong... again. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.16 20:32:04 -
[297] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: I did not call Levi spammer, its Dave, you and similar ones.
Please be more specific when you insulting someone.
Don ZOLA wrote: couple of spammers made it look like its 50-50 in the pro and con posts.
Can you extend yor list with con-mans? Because it looks like your list is quite biased.
Don ZOLA wrote:Also I did not comment on reddit, as he was referring to this topic only. And I'm pointing out that eve-o not the only source of opinions. |
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Posted - 2015.11.16 21:00:02 -
[298] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: You quoted my post which had clearly stated quote where it was visible that we are discussing about THIS topic. Yet you have decided to spam more and comment on something we did not even mention.
"Just giving more depth in your thought" as you might say. If you found my posts irrelevant than you could just ignore them.
Don ZOLA wrote:I am not sure if you actually went behind and saw how many of your posts got deleted. If that ain`t clear message about quality of your posts then I doubt anyone can draw it for you :)
Funny that you mention it. Your previous "proof" had erased but my post still there. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.16 21:39:48 -
[299] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Great idea CCP +1 thanks for opening the game up a bit more to allow more people to enjoy themselves.
Will probably be looked back as one of the greatest changes EvE ever made once all the tin-foil hat doomsday preppers realize this isn't Y2K. Except it will not happen, no matter how much you spam without any real arguments. Even if it happens, you would not play for too long before the game dies. Lose-Lose scenario for you :/ Interesting that you call spammer only those who pro but no one who agianst don't bother you even if they present their opinions without any arguments. Are you replying only on spam which you don't like? |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.16 22:54:12 -
[300] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Thanks for adding post by divine intervention btw, as his posts truly show argumentless cheering where he only insults others
He might say
Don ZOLA wrote:I am not insulting, just stating obvious Euphemisms and double standarts is powerful stuff but they could work both ways.
Don ZOLA wrote:I am in mood I will challenge trolls and spammers.
Quote:He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. |
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Posted - 2015.11.16 23:30:12 -
[301] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: I basically challenge people to prove they are not what I think they are.
Lets talk about nation culture. ISD will delete our convisation anyway. Russians have popular expression "-ö-+-¦-¦-¦-+ -ç-é-+ -é-ï -+-¦ -¦-¦-Ç-¦-+-Ä-¦" translated like "Prove you're not a camel". It forcing opponent to prove obvious things. Also it's one of demagogue methods. I have no intend to feed you, mr.green. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 00:08:37 -
[302] - Quote
Nubran Pahineh wrote: Sure. Every skill I have painstakingly acquired will now be trumped by anyone with a fat wallet. It no longer matters how good I am, how skilled I am, or how long I have played. All that matters is the wealth of the guy who just blapped me with a capital while my best ship is a cruiser.
1) They already can buy toon from bazaar 2) There is a lot of players who already have capitals and could blap you anytime you wish. It's sandbox man.
Nubran Pahineh wrote: And that is why 95% of this thread is composed of people who are violently opposed to SP selling. The other 5% is obviously composed of wealthy people who are just drooling at the chance to buy their way to the front of the line like they always do.
Yahooo I'm rich. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:20:12 -
[303] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: I've hit 50 mil 2 days ago It's explains everything you wrote. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:58:19 -
[304] - Quote
Vahligmarr wrote: So catch up with this first, then catch up with my 190million SP with your new shiny SP for RealMoney Mechanic you praise that much, and then judge me again, loyal one.
Lets do some math. For catching you up mad rich man need to use 2472.5 injectors(2200 to burn from 80m to 190m SP). Each injector will cost non less than 1/4 of plex. 2472/4=618 plexes=12000$.12000$ minimum because market won't allow to buy 2472 injectors simultaneously and by the same price. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 17:21:41 -
[305] - Quote
Vahligmarr wrote: + let your "math" aside, the big change is not what is happening from 100 to 200 Million SP, the change is, with SPT you can have a skill up to lvl 5 instantly. Which is a huge advantage, when something new comes out ( skill, ship, module ). No matter how you call it, you will hit a paywall then, if you want to be competitive, a paywal in a subscription based game!
If you want to be competitive than compete with isk. Anyway it's your problem, not mine.
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 17:41:31 -
[306] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:General Lootit wrote:Vahligmarr wrote: So catch up with this first, then catch up with my 190million SP with your new shiny SP for RealMoney Mechanic you praise that much, and then judge me again, loyal one.
Lets do some math. For catching you up mad rich man need to use 2472.5 injectors(2200 to burn from 80m to 190m SP). Each injector will cost non less than 1/4 of plex. 2472/4=618 plexes=12000$. Noob with 190m SP. Will be fuuny to watch. These are very rough figures, I read that a fitted Titan costs about 175 Plex to build. If that is a correct figure: To buy SP for a Titan pilot would cost about 3 - 3.1/2 Titans To buy SP for a Super carrier Pilot is much cheaper - 1.1/2 - 2 Titans worth. The Major Alliances & Big Corps have a system in place to replace Capital ship losses and have enough isk to do so. There were 108 Titans lost last year and they have been replaced (and in some cases already lost again). Getting ships to fly is not a problem. Earning ISK to buy stuff is not a problem. The limiting factor is the time investment into Skill Points. If buying SP was a thing then it becomes far too easy to buy your way to victory - Pay to Win - and with the direction SOV is taking with localized combat zones & jump restrictions then much more emphasis will be placed on multiple battle groups. But if you have pilots but they lack skills and if you can only hold what you can defend: Then a 'cheap' ALT carrier / supercarrier or Titan pilot provided to members by an alliance to bolster your zone's battle group is not out of the realm of possibility. and the other ALT, sure... Here's a perfect miner and a multiple training certificate you can mine ore and farm Skill Points for us with that one. I have one big fat question: where are they members of Major Alliances & Big Corps? When they come to defend SP market if it so beneficial for them? |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 17:49:21 -
[307] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: I think they know they don't have to defend it because it's already a done deal
But you still writing here... You know something that they don't?
Iowa Banshee wrote: Edit: How do you know they are not defending it already?
Show me example. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 18:05:07 -
[308] - Quote
Vahligmarr wrote:General Lootit wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote: I think they know they don't have to defend it because it's already a done deal
But you still writing here... You know something that they don't? You are such a troll, what about "General Trollit" next time? You don't have anymore arguments, do you? I appreciate your creativity. I thought we having fun here becuse
Lady Rift wrote: there really isnt much more to be said.
Iowa Banshee wrote: it's already a done deal
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 21:56:37 -
[309] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: So seeing as you can't have one without the other then it is Skillpoints for cash.
Follow your logic I know another item that already gives you skillpoints for cash. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 22:14:17 -
[310] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Without the wait time ( Time investment ) it just has an isk value.
If you know method to earn isk without time investments than let me know. |
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 22:35:00 -
[311] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: Without the wait time ( Time investment ) it just has an isk value.
If you know method to earn isk without time investments than let me know too. For a gobshite like you, go join your other buddies round jita scrounging. Thats more up your alley and requires no skills Hey are you just swiched terms "time" and "skills"? I asked not about skill but time investments. That is not cool, dude... not cool. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 22:46:48 -
[312] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: well with all the time you spend in stations spinning waiting for you skills to train you can still beg so still suites your playstyle of doing nothing to earn.
Nope. You made same mistake.
My point is that isk require time to earn. Feel free to disprove it. So time is necessary thing even when you buying TSP. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 23:17:11 -
[313] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: You didnt answer the question, The contract was between you and me
There is nothing between you and me anymore! Please go out. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.17 23:24:49 -
[314] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Rat Scout wrote:CCP you are a genius, you just invented pay to loose This is probably the most accurate description presented thus far, oddly enough. Some lessons must be paid. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.18 00:23:24 -
[315] - Quote
Another example "How to invent unsolvable problem and prove that new thing is bad "
Tau Phoenix wrote: What happens if a player tried to sell SP for a skill that they no longer use but th eskill is a pre-requestite for a skill they do use? Would CCP like to comment here? Would that char still be able to fly a T2 cruiser is the prerequisit SP werr sold/removed from th e char?
CCP Terminus secretly told me
CCP Terminus wrote: The current plan is to not allow skillpoints to be extracted from skills that are requirements of other skills. So in your example you would have to remove the Command Ships skill before you could remove any prerequisite skills like Armored Warfare.
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Posted - 2015.11.18 16:14:04 -
[316] - Quote
Raffael Ramirez wrote: But what is proposed is a fundamental change of game mechanics, that to be perfectly honest don't need fixing.
Maybe you think that way because you already have SP as much as you want?
Quote:Date of Birth: 2003-10-13
Raffael Ramirez wrote:If you want a char with more SK/P you can buy it - nothing wrong with it so there is a way it is even legal - why do it? Yea, but SP trading will allow me to keep indentity and spend isk in more gradual way.
Raffael Ramirez wrote:Maybe gamers left because of changes/mistakes made in the past which set EVE on the course it is now, maybe the vision of EVE changed, maybe CCP needs to do this to survive as a company. Or maybe old players will quit no matter what because of insurmountable circumstances of life and current flow of new players is not enough to cover the loss. Changes like this required to increase the flow. |
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Posted - 2015.11.18 19:12:15 -
[317] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote: All that remains is to see how CCP will implement it.
CCP we all waiting of announcement
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Posted - 2015.11.18 20:48:27 -
[318] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: I have a Gold Credit Card & can afford to pay for my character to be able to fly a Carrier - You only have a Blue Credit Card & can only afford the SP to get your pilot into a Cruiser -
I'm rich and bought a ROCK - good luck with only being able to afford the Scissors
Do you hunt Cruisers with Carrier or what? Even Gold Credit Card can't buy an expirence and knowledge of the game for you.
Iowa Banshee wrote: Take that 20million SP alt: Get out a Credit Card and spend some $$ - Then buy the Skill Points that at present can only gain through time investment.
Or get out a Credit Card right now and go to the bazaar. Furthermore Skill Points must be trained before exrtacting so even TSP require time investments. |
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Posted - 2015.11.18 21:55:46 -
[319] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage
Now your point is a litle bit clearer but I still don't get it. How anyone might care about "SP advantage"? There is a lot of people who already have that advantage over you and you can't do anything about exept buying a new toon. Does it bother you? Or you bother about "person with the deepest pockets" who at the same time your personal enemy?
Iowa Banshee wrote: Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.
"Person with the deepest pockets" don't care about alts, source of SP, ect. He could just buy toon from bazaar right now if he want to have "advantage " over you personally. |
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Posted - 2015.11.18 23:01:32 -
[320] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: This is a subscription based game and the value of that subscription 'IS' the number of Skill points my character has trained and is presently training.
Because:- EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME CAN BE BOUGHT
So bazaar where you can buy character with SP doesn't exist? |
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General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.19 00:18:42 -
[321] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: Would you pay $15 or 1.2bill ISK for a PLEX to buy a remap skill points tool for a character ?
Would you pay $30 or 2.2bill ISK to free up an alt slot (once sold) by packaging a toon for sale on the market ?
No and no because it won't help me( noob with low SP) as much as SP trading. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.19 01:33:13 -
[322] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: All Plex in game are the result of people purchasing them. They are not put on the market by CCP
Someone has to buy them & if you are using a Plex to sub an account you are just converting ISK back into a PLEX before consuming it.
I knew it and becuse of that I don't mind when someone selling extra PLEX on the market with intention to get "advantage" with RL money. It's a deal like with TSP.
Iowa Banshee wrote: If you are Plexing an account you are just better at earning isk than the person that bought the plex in the first place.
So I will be better at gaining SP unless you will pay more to outcompete me. And I perfectly fine with that thought.
Iowa Banshee wrote: An account cannot consume less than 1 to continuing gaining SP and cannot consume more than 3 per account for SP gain
It doesn't mean that person can't buy toon from bazaar. |
General Lootit
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Posted - 2015.11.19 20:22:20 -
[323] - Quote
Tau Phoenix wrote: As i said in an earlier post, you've made your training decisions they should be permenant, thats life. Next you will be saying 'Oh, i studdied the wrong course at university.......can i exchange my diploma for another subject if i just pay the admin fees?' Answer: No, go study another subject and earn it.
Power of analogy come to me! It's Sci-fi game, bro. There is all kind of thing which messing up with your brain. Maybe in the future any piece of knolowege would be looks like toster that could be traded.
Tau Phoenix wrote:...you must be the sort of person who thinks they can fly a carrier because you can sit in it. You must be the sort of person who building unpleasant theories about others. |
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Posted - 2015.11.19 22:53:27 -
[324] - Quote
Suede wrote: "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "
CCP Hellmar 2011-10-05
Would be unfair if CCP directly selling SP but they won't Any who want to buy SP must make a deal with another player who finds that deal fair. If you don't think this is a fair deal than don't sell SP but it doesn't mean that others thinks as you do. |
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Posted - 2015.11.20 01:50:44 -
[325] - Quote
A Ingus wrote: I used to have 4 accounts. But after December there will be none. Nobody will get my stuff. It will slowly fade away
Actually it's quite decent idea. SP need to be a thing which could be forgotten at rate X sp/h if you didn't log in to the game for a couple of days. Maybe then some vets will realise how to be a low SP player or how to be loyal. |
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:52:22 -
[326] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Loyalty was
Maybe it was but now it's just blackmailing. If they want to blackmail - fine, but it must have a backdraw. Quiting as every action must have consequences.
Levi Belvar wrote: We all started out the new guys we all know whats its like and most had it a lot worse than what you have today.
They crossed that line long time ago and back then there is no guy with 200m+ SP. |
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Posted - 2015.11.20 14:19:20 -
[327] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:General Lootit wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: Loyalty was
Maybe it was but now it's just blackmailing. If they want to blackmail - fine, but it must have a backdraw. Quiting as every action must have consequences. Levi Belvar wrote: We all started out the new guys we all know whats its like and most had it a lot worse than what you have today.
They crossed that line long time ago and back then there was no guy with 200m+ SP. Then why dont you just go and **** off and play the same old generic MMO your used to and stop trying to poison this one. It's rude, mr.bitvet |
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Posted - 2015.11.20 14:37:16 -
[328] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: Thats the whole point your just some clueless ignorant newb who wants everything with no effort or time investment
Calm down and breathe deeply. Don't do the same mistake again. |
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Posted - 2015.11.20 14:51:25 -
[329] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: i have no need to calm down
OK then
Don ZOLA wrote: Just let him rage on :)
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Posted - 2015.11.20 17:48:39 -
[330] - Quote
Vahligmarr wrote: Yeah, exactly. A huge disappointment. If they are in need of more income, they should tell us. I would gladly pay 20$ a month subscription, if they leave some fundamentals as they are with the promise that they don't go f2p
General Lootit wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Just make players pay more, and there are players who are willing to pay more. It's all about the price. Any money to keep a crown. |
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Posted - 2015.11.21 21:27:16 -
[331] - Quote
DeepHole Trild wrote: - Is it going to attract more new people to Eve and have them stick longer?
I think(as noob) it will helps me but it isn't the main reason why I'm sticking with the game. Main reason is friendly community of players |
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Posted - 2015.11.21 22:10:00 -
[332] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Just some additional thoughts.
If a player doesn't likes the game enough when he haves low skills, he's unlikely to like it further just with more skills. Having more skills doesn't makes the game better, or more enjoyable. It was a radical thought. If having more skills doesn't makes the game better, or more enjoyable for you a) Stop traning skills b) Vote for Dror(with his idea to get rid of SP system) c) Transfer your high SP toon to me or someone else who can enjoy it. There no differense between playing low SP toon and high one. Right?
Just kidding. If you were right than there wouldn't be exist such thing as bazaar.
Post with opposite opinion
Lan Wang wrote:I bought my first character when i was at 4mil sp, jumped to 42mil sp, was always my intention to buy a character as soon as i heard about the bazaar, but only once i would buy a main character, buying that character made me relevant in fleets and i had much more fun with 42mil sp than i did with 4mil sp, it didnt make me that much better at the game but it certainly made one hell of a difference.
I really dont see much of an issue with this as my now highish sp doesnt really matter to me anymore, i dont really even bother looking at my skills unless the fc's decide on a new doctrine which i cant already fly but i feel much better about having to invest little to no time training skills to get that ship.
Sometimes a small boost in skills really makes the game so much more enjoyable
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:What a faster skilling does for sure, is to shorten up the tenure of those disastisfied player, who rather than sit on the fence for months can find out sooner that their issue is not with skills, but with the game.
Do you want tie them up to torture them more? |
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Posted - 2015.11.21 23:30:36 -
[333] - Quote
CCP I will really appreciate if you public anonymous statistic of this thread. Especially I want to know how often same person using different characters to post. |
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Posted - 2015.11.22 00:04:55 -
[334] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:General Lootit wrote:CCP I will really appreciate if you public anonymous statistic of this thread. Especially I want to know how often same person using different characters to post. Alts are definitely more use for "pro" posts, so I doubt that would work in your favor. Btw, good luck getting CCP to communicate with you/us here :D
A Ingus wrote: I used to have 4 accounts.
I can't afford as many as vet can. "con" mans could be real con-mans. |
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Posted - 2015.11.22 17:36:48 -
[335] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: I never said you used them.
Thanks god. I thought you blame me again as several previous times.
Don ZOLA wrote:Just that majority of pro posts are done by chars which look like alts Which ones? Just interesting. Will Howard looks like Dror. They have similar avatars(style), same month of birth and Will Howard poped up after I mentioned Dror. I could mistaken as you know and all of this is just coincidence.
Don ZOLA wrote:But even if it was truth, it still does not matter obviously as CCP does not care about anything that was discussed here Yeap, this is sad. Anyway only CCP could say it for sure. Script is needed to group up charachters with same account than accounts with same owner and finally some monotone work(read several posts of each owner to determine his position "con" or "pro") Result must say how many alts were used on each side. |
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Posted - 2015.11.22 19:48:11 -
[336] - Quote
Now you become a nice guy. Stay this way.
Don ZOLA wrote: 1. I blamed you for trolling, not posting with alts
First you blamed me in trolling then in spamming so I used inductive logic because you didn't specify about whom you talked about.
Don ZOLA wrote: 2. I doubt Dror is using alts, he has quite unique POV and specific way of posting
Maybe they have same photographer
Don ZOLA wrote: 3. There is much more ways these forums could be improved, but I guess it is easier for CCP employees to go to some third side forums, we are aware they do not care about subscribed players anyway :D
Menthioning miscommunication third time in the row I think it's too much. |
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Posted - 2015.12.03 16:24:07 -
[337] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.
What kind of "fundamentals"?
Don ZOLA wrote:You will never be able to overcome me in SP unless I quit and that makes me happy "fundamental" like this makes you happy. Who would doubt it?
Don ZOLA wrote:Well it obviously does create a less enjoyable environment. People are already canceling subscriptions "I strongly doubt it" Anyway they are not customers anymore. |
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Posted - 2015.12.03 19:24:36 -
[338] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: That was trolling for troll.
I told you...
Quote:He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.
Don ZOLA wrote: Some of them are. Ie they have canceled some accounts but not all.
They become less valuable.
Don ZOLA wrote: I have already wrote numerous times about this Yea side effects, concerns, etc
You worry when the weather's cold You worry when it's hot You worry when you're doing well You worry when you're not It's worry worry all the time
You may need help anxiety and OCD are not a joke.
Don ZOLA wrote: go troll someone else Trollin' troll it's like rock'n'roll but different spelling. ;)Gäó |
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Posted - 2015.12.03 22:03:51 -
[339] - Quote
A Ingus wrote:Or to be more charitable you may think it might help new players. The problem is it would only be those new players with cash, and probably also with some more advanced game knowledge than your average newbie. This change will really only benefit a few relatively newish players that have alts or rl cash to dump into the game in the elusive quest for some kind of perfect character. SP traiding will make SP boosting more accessible for thoose players who cannot or wont to spend large amount of isk at once how it happening on bazaar. So your argument seems not convenient to me.
A Ingus wrote: this is not an sp race game. There is no level 80 skill level, or purchased out of game magical item, contest. To engage in an sp race is to misunderstand what this game is about. Tell it to Vahligmarr or any other person who shouting "Pay to win!"
Vahligmarr wrote: the big change is not what is happening from 100 to 200 Million SP, the change is, with SPT you can have a skill up to lvl 5 instantly. Which is a huge advantage, when something new comes out ( skill, ship, module ). No matter how you call it, you will hit a paywall then, if you want to be competitive. I assuming that she want to be competitive but wont compete with SP.
A Ingus wrote: But over the years more instant gratification mechanisms have snuck in along with people that want ways to achieve in that way.
I need to do something in the game to be able buy TSP and I can't call it "instant gratification". But now I watching how my SP growing with no action from my side. I think it some sort of lazy gratification. |
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Posted - 2015.12.03 23:52:33 -
[340] - Quote
A Ingus wrote: SP boosting for actual new players can be done in other and consistent/equal ways.
If current idea won't pass than there is no hope for other chance. Since your are not a newbie you are not interested in passing for any sort of "SP boosting for actual new players" bill.
A Ingus wrote:But really the TSP method CCP is proposing is all about not brand new players and their $. Thanks for info but I already knew that CCP isn't a charity company.
A Ingus wrote:What you call lazy gratification is in my view patient gratification I'm always telling people "I'm not lazy. I'm patient " But they didn't trust me.
Iowa Banshee wrote: Leaving all the rest to fall under the category "I want to allow one subscriber to use real life cash to improve their lot over a another subscriber"
A Ingus teaching us
A Ingus wrote: this is not an sp race game. There is no level 80 skill level, or purchased out of game magical item, contest. To engage in an sp race is to misunderstand what this game is about.
So, Iowa Banshee, don't worry about it. |
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Posted - 2015.12.04 03:38:34 -
[341] - Quote
A Ingus wrote: Everyone you mock, adroitly in your own mind, was a newbie once. Ponder that truth. And I would bet none of them where as whiney about sp and I want it now as you are.
I writing here because CCP introduced it, not me. You was a noob but you passed that line long time ago.
A Ingus wrote: Like I said you used to start with next to zero and you also had to train the learning skills. You think you have it bad now. But we walked miles uphill in the snow with an arrow sticking out of our knee, and we liked it
Apparently back then there was no guy with near to 200m SP and 4 accounts.
A Ingus wrote:And you sound fatalistic. No hope for other chance? Please. Bad influence of
A Ingus wrote: I used to have 4 accounts. But after December there will be none. Nobody will get my stuff. It will slowly fade away waiting for the game to die.
Same thing about
Daniela Doran wrote: The debate should be then if it's worth it to destroy Eve in the long run in order to make a good chunk of change in the short run.
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Posted - 2015.12.04 18:01:21 -
[342] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: you are commenting from your own ignorant pov ... I have better knowledge than you ... You have just shown that you have no idea what I am talking about. And I do not blame you, you have not read my posts and I do not care to rewrite them or even link them. Though I find you ignorant or delusional (if you really think you are successfully discarding them without even knowing what they are about).
Wow, you are so arrogant. "I am not insulting, just stating obvious" -¬ Don ZOLA
Iowa Banshee wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:General Lootit wrote:A Ingus wrote: this is not an sp race game. There is no level 80 skill level, or purchased out of game magical item, contest. To engage in an sp race is to misunderstand what this game is about.
So, Iowa Banshee, don't worry about it. So apparently not that big of an advantage, just one worth screaming over in order to keep. Understood - Will log in immediately and turn off all training A Ingus, apparently they don't believe you. |
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Posted - 2015.12.04 19:38:30 -
[343] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Stop taking things out of content you lousy troll.
Don ZOLA wrote: That was trolling for troll.
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Posted - 2015.12.04 20:17:02 -
[344] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: To cause trouble - The definition of a Troll
Quite casual definition of troll.
Berrice Silf wrote: You took selected sentences then added to the recipient
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Posted - 2015.12.04 21:13:31 -
[345] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: The ability to buy out of poor training decisions removes consequences and devalues those decisions.
Iowa Banshee wrote:Some people are against re-mapping skill points on a character - I'm not one of them Some sort of contradiction. |
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Posted - 2015.12.05 00:48:36 -
[346] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:All 3 of these complaints do seem to have one thing in common though. They view the sub length as something other and beyond earning SP and having game access. The appear to go beyond both and assume an entitlement to their personal place in the SP hierarchy. It's not that you're losing anything, but rather that you might not be ahead of the same people tomorrow that you are ahead of today.
Or further, they seem to view the whole of the value of game access is the advantage they hold over others. Yet we're the self serving ones on a feature I have no plans to use no less. Well some bad people might use it to feed newbies SP early on in their (newbies') Eve career which breaks their progression or something? Like you gotta gear up first before tackling blackwing lair, you know I'm amazed by ability to create problems from nothing. It's like a magic. |
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Posted - 2015.12.05 17:21:36 -
[347] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:General Lootit wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:All 3 of these complaints do seem to have one thing in common though. They view the sub length as something other and beyond earning SP and having game access. The appear to go beyond both and assume an entitlement to their personal place in the SP hierarchy. It's not that you're losing anything, but rather that you might not be ahead of the same people tomorrow that you are ahead of today.
Or further, they seem to view the whole of the value of game access is the advantage they hold over others. Yet we're the self serving ones on a feature I have no plans to use no less. Well some bad people might use it to feed newbies SP early on in their (newbies') Eve career which breaks their progression or something? Like you gotta gear up first before tackling blackwing lair, you know I'm amazed by ability to create problems from nothing. It's like a magic. It's the magic of defending your entitlements Who called to my advocate? Since you are here would be nice if you defend my actual position - right to buy TSP. |
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Posted - 2015.12.05 18:48:35 -
[348] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: That is funny, There is no such item yet as a TSP
It was introduced so it might be such thing in the future. Your captain
Berrice Silf wrote:Your just inferring you right to pay 2 advance at present I defending my right to play 2 boosting advance. |
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Posted - 2015.12.05 19:04:00 -
[349] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:It has not been introduced, its purely a discussion at this present time. There are no patch / release notes on it, Your presumption is mere speculation and wishful tro ...... thinking [sarcasm]Yea, all of this people who wrote in this thread didn't consider it like possible future.[/sarcasm] |
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Posted - 2015.12.05 21:43:39 -
[350] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: I couldn't say I've even seen any intellectual comment come from you in this whole thread ... All of the people who wrote in this thread don't consider it there right to be able buy there way into the game like you.
If you had really read my posts than you must know that I don't even paying for sub.
Berrice Silf wrote:They give there personal representations of how they view it, arguments for and against . How thin edge between arguments and speculation.
Berrice Silf wrote:Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, probably why trolls are drawn to it like moths around light. Can I qoute you when someone from your side will be sarcastic? Like
Berrice Silf wrote: wishful tro ...... thinking |
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Posted - 2015.12.05 22:03:24 -
[351] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: That is not speculation, that's already been worked out about 150 pages ago. If the average pilot is earning 1.5m a month and the clued in pilot is getting very close to 2m a month - If you work on keeping a main under the 50m threshold with 2 farm alts on an account with it you can interchange skills between the 3 with very limited losses incurred. Those 3 could become any FoTM within a few minutes. Like having a personal hot swap character building service at your fingertips.
"How thin edge between arguments and speculation." Maybe next time you will be more thoughtful before calling opponents opinion "just your speculation" because I can do same thing with yours.
Right reaction on it is
Alexia Atavuli wrote: I am sure as in all things, there will be crazy (but rare) abuses -- such as the overnight Tengu pilot. The one with lots of skills and no skills at the same time. And like other things before, we will weather them.
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Posted - 2015.12.05 22:26:43 -
[352] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: Saying you do not pay a sub has nothing at all to do with the fact that you say
Thats why I trying to qoute important sentences
Berrice Silf wrote: comment come from you in this whole thread ... right to be able buy there way into the game like you.
I just doubt that you had read whole theard.
Berrice Silf wrote: Nobody is going to tell me how to play my game my way and if i want to use TSP to speed my training up i will.
Please quote my actual words or I consider it as nasty "straw man" trick.
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Posted - 2015.12.05 22:36:49 -
[353] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: I take it you must be quite new to this game with the naivety in your ramblings, Having 3 characters at an optimum 49.5m skill points each. The combinations you could achieve with those is staggering and it's certainly not speculation on current information provided by the developers. Once you hit this point all earned packets could either be stored for other uses or sold.
I should be upset with that? |
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Posted - 2015.12.06 00:27:16 -
[354] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: I have this character since 2003, I am quite identified with it. Again, ignorant view that if you bought char everyone did
I was wrong... you are not only arrogant, you ignorant too because if you did't bougth any char from bazaar it doesn't mean that others doing things in way you do.
Don ZOLA wrote: I am sorry, but sooner you realize you are ignorant and then realize that you cannot look only through your own perspective, you will grow as a person. You should actually be thankful for me pointing that out :)
You should actually be thankful for me pointing that out that you are arrogant too.
Don ZOLA wrote: Please keep in mind that I did not refer to you as a troll. Never. I actually think you are quite smart guy, just too egocentrical and looking through his own eyes only.
Please keep in mind that I did not refer to you as a dumbass. I actually think you are quite nice guy, just sometimes you become too arrogant concerned troll
Don ZOLA wrote: I am not trying to insult you to get you out of discussion. I just want you to look wider
Do you think angry people looking wider? Or do you think people can accept with no emotion when you calling them delusional and ignorant?
Don ZOLA wrote: This is MASS mporg, we need MASS to keep it alive and introducing something that might help 1% of player base is not something mass needs.
You have no actual statistic only repeated "1%". I could say you are one from 1% of thoose who have enormous SP baggage |
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Posted - 2015.12.06 19:06:53 -
[355] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:General Lootit wrote:When I joined Eve(about 25 days ago) most of players had much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do. So your entire eve career spans a few months, What an insightful person you must be to glean your knowledge onto everyone and share your vast experiences
Berrice Silf wrote: Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, probably why trolls are drawn to it like moths around light.
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Posted - 2015.12.06 19:20:04 -
[356] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:General Lootit wrote:Berrice Silf wrote: Sort of the same theme running through them all me me me me, Its massive multiplayer not massive single player game, ive saved the best one for last but will have to stick it into another post to many quotes.
You could use bold font for quoting to bypass a limit. I foreced to post messages like this becuse some people keep telling that it won't help noobs and I giving them counter example. And as I said General Lootit wrote: I have no permit to speaking for all of us(noobs) ... and I'm pretty much sure you too.
So you can take your straw man and stick it where a monkey sticks it's nuts, Your just a nasty little troll as many have pointed out before. I should warn you
Quote:He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. |
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Posted - 2015.12.06 21:25:09 -
[357] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:General Lootit wrote:He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Ever heard of locator agents troll, you just might meet that monster your talking about Sorry, didn't notice. |
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Posted - 2015.12.06 22:12:15 -
[358] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: Taking things out of context again, I hoped your trolling skills would improve :/
Teach me, master. |
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Posted - 2015.12.06 23:21:47 -
[359] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: There are numerous players who sticked to their original characters.
Sasha Sen wrote: Sasha was my first character, first choice. The skill packets would allow me to stay with my choice and get the skills I feel I "need" to move forward. So Sasha would live on, as my first choice for character, with all the consequences attached to her.
Sorry, Sasha, but someone thinking that we are minority and thats why we don't derserve it. |
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Posted - 2015.12.07 04:16:29 -
[360] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: [context] And what you are stating is pure elitism, "everyone is given a same chance, who cares why someone cannot do it" and something which was against principles of EVE since start. Ie time managed sp system was there to give everyone same "rights" regardless of how much time they can devote to the game [/context]
O rly? I thought principle of EVE "Lets give additional advantage(SP) to palyers who subed longer so they could do more thing than others". I just can't believe that you wrote this - char who have ~244m SP and who was subed since 2003. |
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Posted - 2015.12.07 17:28:26 -
[361] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: In some selfish way, I hope CCP do start this program. I hope it brings 10's of thousands of new players in. I want all those new players flying ships they purchased SP for in the game, the more the merrier. Having SP does not give you pilot skill, only learning the mechanics of how ships work will do that. Bottom line - The more noobs in shiny ships the more killmails (and buckets of tears) for the rest of us.
NB; My FW character with <10 mil SP is currently my favorite. I get more kills with it and have more fun than I do in any of my other characters.
I like your way of thinking. You have your fun, noobs have their SP.
Berrice Silf wrote: Eve is a sandbox in every sense of the word. In this open world there is no place a one day old character cannot go to that someone who has played for 13 years. There are no level entry requirements to access any area, there are no instanced area's that are off limits to anyone.
What about ships requirements?
Berrice Silf wrote: All its characters are created equal from day one none better than the next. ... That is not the games fault but they're the first to whine about falling behind and they cannot access the latest FoTM shinies.
"And what you are stating is pure elitism, "everyone is given a same chance, who cares why someone cannot do it"" |
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Posted - 2015.12.07 17:57:45 -
[362] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: Everyone is equal, because you want to spend your time chasing the white rabbit is your choice. Just dont come whining about it later is not an elitist statement. Your playing it how you want to play it but because you treat it like a second job to fund your gameplay you have little time left for the finer parts of the game and its content.
Don't get me wrong. I just qouted Don ZOLA. It's not what I really think. |
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Posted - 2015.12.07 19:03:24 -
[363] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: The sandbox is the environment, the sandbox doesn't give you access to your ships your tenure to the game does e.g. the time investment.
Alavaria Fera wrote: I shall spend my time to farm isk in order to obtain these tsp. Actually investing time, you know. Different from the passage of time.
I agree with Alavaria Fera about it |
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Posted - 2015.12.07 20:10:54 -
[364] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:A few things: 1: TSP comes from time 2: Obtaining TSP via isk also always comes from time
Thus there is never any point at which one can bypass the time investment. One just has to entice those who have made the investment to part with it.
So regardless of the number of times that quote is repeated it won't actually have the meaning you intend since everything still has it's origin in time (and money). Except someone else invested that time it and by purchasing it you can avoid current limits to your original characters (limited by sp/hour). If you are willing to spend the cash you can bypass any time investment at all (even ones currently not doable by purchasing chars of bazaar). That limit must be very important for old customers who want to keep SP gap. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.07 20:19:42 -
[365] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: Your time investment is the 30 day access.
My plex/sub is 30 day access.
Berrice Silf wrote: Actual play time is a completely different thing.
So is there difference or not? "As to passage of time could be viewed as the point at which you started your career in eve to this present day." |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.07 22:15:38 -
[366] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: Your playing it how you want to play it but because you treat it like a second job to fund your gameplay you have little time left for the finer parts of the game and its content.
I treat it like game in which I can get advantege through actually playing. Or it's not? So I could understand why some people screaming
Obsidian Crowe wrote:Please god no. You will make EVE play to win
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.07 22:45:42 -
[367] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: Im not disagreeing with anything you stated above, What im trying to get you to see is however bizarre it may seem if the TSP goes live is that 13 years of training can be superseded by someone with enough financial clout to buy his way straight to the top of the ranking lists. I understand that any TSP injected has been trained in real time by someone but even the bazaar wont allow you near the top ranked people, you cannot take 3 x 100m skill point characters and combine into a 300 mill pilot . The TSP will if you have the money to throw at it.
Should we care about minority of that top list? Don one of them and he don't care about others minorities so why we I shoud if he doesn't? "The king is dead, long live the king!" |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.07 23:01:33 -
[368] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:Like i said initially though, however illogical it may seem it becomes a reality with a TSP. The investment of money in EVE will give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. It will be compensated by gaining fair advantage through playing time. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.08 00:40:21 -
[369] - Quote
Time to funny statstic: Don wrote 14 "wrong" on last page.
Last post
Don ZOLA wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Regarding the majority, that's tricky because as we've seen here those "loyal" customers are prone to kneejerk threats that try to hold the developers hostage. At some point the development by committee will fail and those same players will have no one but themselves to blame despite still pointing at the developers.
a) So you are denying official data and my question regarding the scenario you are suggesting. If average wallet does not mean anything to be taken in consideration, how come in the last 3 years there were no booms of earnings when new things were implemented? If your imagined scenario was true, we would see significant growth of peoples income whenever some new interesting stuff is added. Yet we lack those.. Care to explain or admit your scenario is not vaild, ie you are wrong? b) You can keep identity now, that is why one character is main, others are alts regardless of sp. So what exactly is going to be changed there? Plus you are not forced to purchase alt, it is your choice. Therefore you already have the same "benefit" now, some use it, some dont You are wrong again. e) Please do not digress, either answer my question or admit you are wrong. Your own words are that guides for earning isk are available for everyone, so new players as well. Therefore if provided starting capital they could use guides and make much more isk which will benefit both them and growth. Why no one trusts new players with hundreds of millions and why would that be different in the future? g) Out of game demand is another way of your digression. In my explanation I have called it supply, quite easy to understand. Naming it out of game demand does not change a single fact I have mentioned. Therefore demand for plex ingame increases it price. Supply follows demand to certain point, ie stretches a bit, after that supply cannot fulfill demand and therefore prices go up even more. At the moment there is still enough supply as you can buy plexes anytime you wish, what will happen when demand increases? h) Regardless of me being surprised or not, another shallow attempt at digressing. Can you please answer my question or admit you are wrong? If we look at the cheapest option it will be very expensive for average player - simple yes is enough. No demands explanation, not digression m) Key demand is for subscriptions but regardless of that does implementing one more demand increases or lowers total demand? If total demand is increased will it increase prices? Do you think rise in plex prices will hit those who subscribe that way as well? n) As mentioned, if there was no side effects there would not be a problem and we would not have this thread with 300 pages. If there is a potential side effect to lose more than to gain you would choose to go for it? Ie you are putting a gain for small base while changing game fundamentals for whole player base. Even more you are making your own customers to question relation customer - service provider due to your sudden inconsistency. What message are you sending to your remaining and potentially new customers? CCP does not take its loyal customers in consideration for a while. Loyal customers pointed fozzy sov issues etc. And it kind of looks like they were totally right. Loyal customers have helped this game reach its heights. Loyal customers are here all the time, developers are changing since their idea after idea fails. It would actually be great if CCP listened to the loyal customers instead of doing what they do. Ask top10 sp guys on EB what they got for their years of loyalty? Ability that someone overtakes them by simply investing cash. So your point is void and aimed just as attack on me, implying i am kneejerker (or one of them). Good night now, please either start admitting you are wrong or provide reasonable explanations for not being wrong. No point in digressing anymore. Thanks in advance. Seems it's "his own crusade" for "winning a forum war" and goal is to force Tyberius Franklin to admit that he was wrong.
Don, we will find out who was wrong after TSP become released. Just cool down.
Main source of concerns and side effects
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.08 17:54:30 -
[370] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: CCP does not take its loyal customers in consideration for a while. Loyal customers pointed fozzy sov issues etc. And it kind of looks like they were totally right. Loyal customers have helped this game reach its heights. Loyal customers are here all the time, developers are changing since their idea after idea fails. It would actually be great if CCP listened to the loyal customers instead of doing what they do. Ask top10 sp guys on EB what they got for their years of loyalty? Ability that someone overtakes them by simply investing cash.
Don ZOLA wrote: As a loyal paying customer of Eve-online for over a decade, for multiple accounts, I am shocked by CCP inconsistency and changing one of the game fundamentals. I am afraid to commit further more to the game as I feel I cannot trust them in the long run, as I cannot be sure some other fundamentals will not be changed, so I have decided to stop paying for their services I will rather go to some other service provider on which I can lean on and be certain that the frame of the sandbox will not change. Considering they have "played" me and my expectations and plans for the game, I will surely express my dissatisfaction to every possible customer they might have, to warn them in time to not waste time on the game which demands long term commitment but you cannot lean on it. As someone who has spend thousands of dollars on it I feel I was not treated as valuable customer and I strongly suggest that everyone avoids it.
If loyal customers thinking that their money somehow better - fine. Anyway I can't handle all of these tears anymore. CCPlease add this to diminishing returns for go... "games sake": 80 -100 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added > 100 million skillpoints = 0 unallocated skillpoints added
They desereved it.
P.S. "This is social game, when I express my dissatisfaction and I quit, my best friend will quit too and also spread the message, then one more common friend, then his best friend etc." best describing of loyalty I ever heard.
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.08 18:51:07 -
[371] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Hamish McRothimay wrote:You are so right !! its a stupid idea. You forgot to mention the newbies who joined thinking they were getting to play the game at the same level as others but suddenly find out they have to buy SP to keep up.
So to stop newbies quitting cause they thought they only needed to pay 10 a month < 5 Million skill points = 0 unallocated skill points added You understand how this thread works. He has good potential.
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.08 20:30:54 -
[372] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So MY question still stands "what side effects?"
Bad of course
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.09 03:38:12 -
[373] - Quote
A Ingus wrote: It appears you think he who posts last wins.
Don ZOLA wrote: While I will never quit until you prove your points in the list or admit being wrong I would still like to save some time.
"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. " Ie trying to prove something to someone who said
Don ZOLA wrote: Unfortunately for you, I am here to show you how wrong you are
A Ingus wrote: And since those that oppose this proposal appear to have tired of your antics, and no longer bother to post...
Come tomorrow to see new Dons posts. I'm sure he will come because his pride is too huge.
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.09 16:52:01 -
[374] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: You really should learn to read or just shut your mouth, ive not said anything of a 1 time payment .
Levi Belvar wrote: you either need to goto bed or shut your yammering you have no clue about what im talking about here obviously.
Who are you and where is Levi?
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.09 18:14:26 -
[375] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: So could that be one of my eleventy accounts that im stripping and liquidating or just like you full of ****
Yea, we are all full of stars... stars dust.
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.09 22:29:41 -
[376] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote: ie if you are serious while posting please go see some psychologist. I do not want to beg you to do it, after all it is about your health. But as said, if you are serious with your posts go see doctor.
I am not trying to slag you or your posting with this above, I do not need that kind of "help", just do it for your own sake. Thats how your unconscious mind begging for help through advices to others. FYI Anxiety disorders are a category of mental disorders characterized by feelings of anxiety and fear, where anxiety is a worry about future events and fear is a reaction to current events.
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
161
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Posted - 2015.12.10 04:18:20 -
[377] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:At this point it's obvious that you're being trolled now. I think he realised it a while ago however he didn't become less reasonable. It's rare and valuable skill to stay in focus especially while talking with troll.
Main source of concerns and side effects
Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
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